mordy & the tune is space both seem OTM but I will have to synthesise their arguments
it would seem the very Act of Choosing, the Moment of Self-Nomination above the logical clack-clack of single-strand cause & effect, is the Adoption of Task, the Instant of Divine Clarity - and I do agree that a partially-accessible Transcendent is necessary for the overcoming of Inevitability - call it God, call it Conscience, call it Time in which to Think - but it is a multiplicity of Effect, a Branching-Point whose System can be echoed in the quantum chaos of atomic movement - of which the neural space of the Human Brain is microcosm -
I will add that Task is very specific & not everyday - it takes a great deal of Clarity & Effort to transcend or even consider one's Expected Reflections of the Cosmos - this is the Woolly bit, and requires Faith in a Higher State of Consideration - call it Gnosis, call it Free Will, call it Enlightenment
― veneer timber (imago), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 18:32 (ten years ago) link
or indeed Epiphany
Determinism is true, compatibilism is a liberal fairy tale, free will is incoherent, good and evil are phantoms, we can have laws anyway because none of it has any bearing on how we live
― i too went to college (silby), Tuesday, 17 December 2013 02:24 (ten years ago) link
Oh fuck, unintended revive, pretend I asked something interesting instead, like uh, who is everybody's favorite non-infinitarian mathematician?
― i too went to college (silby), Tuesday, 17 December 2013 02:26 (ten years ago) link
What was the optimum year for sleeping with Bertrand Russel?
― i too went to college (silby), Tuesday, 17 December 2013 02:27 (ten years ago) link
I agree w ur conclusions which is why I've embraced gnostic insanity: makes me feel better
― Mordy , Tuesday, 17 December 2013 02:29 (ten years ago) link
Oh silby, my child
― VENIET IMBER (imago), Tuesday, 17 December 2013 02:38 (ten years ago) link
I suspect that moral culpability can be salvaged with minor tweaks even if we accept determinism. However, much more troubling to me is how to reconcile determinism with my own sense that I do have free will. I certainly seem to experience the act of exercising my own free will on a regular basis, and it would be difficult to demonstrate that it is all an illusion.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 17 December 2013 22:29 (ten years ago) link
i don't think that's an ish. pretty often i seem to experience the act of being sober and it's fairly demonstrably false.
― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 00:35 (ten years ago) link
Could be worse could be the opposite
― Bigsam: flotsam and jetsam @ whetsam? (darraghmac), Wednesday, 18 December 2013 00:40 (ten years ago) link
"it looks like x is the case therefore" is so weak tho
― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 00:42 (ten years ago) link
"so why did people think the sun moves round the earth?" etc
― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 00:43 (ten years ago) link
imo the problem with the question of free will as it's often approached is that it's founded on a conflation of the distinct temporalities of physics and subjectivity - sure we can't go busting open physics, but there are so many planes of operation between physics and us as human subjects that ultimately what we're talking about are two rly rly different things that have different principles underpinning them. to what extent we have free will in a social or political sense though, that's where we're fucked.
― Merdeyeux, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 00:45 (ten years ago) link
yes to that, basically
― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 00:46 (ten years ago) link
Was gonna post reply, didnt
― Bigsam: flotsam and jetsam @ whetsam? (darraghmac), Wednesday, 18 December 2013 00:51 (ten years ago) link
*world spins off axis*
― Bigsam: flotsam and jetsam @ whetsam? (darraghmac), Wednesday, 18 December 2013 00:52 (ten years ago) link
i don't think that's an ish. pretty often i seem to experience the act of being sober and it's fairly demonstrably false
Sure, illusions can happen on occasion, but if free will is an illusion it's an extremely persistent one.
Sure, people have been wrong about lots of things, but to be wrong about such an intimate part of my own inner experience is a bit different. It's kind of like if I'm feeling angry and someone told me I wasn't really angry, would I credit it?
― o. nate, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 16:27 (ten years ago) link
but your experience of feeling as if you have free will isn't in question
― the five people you meet in Hedon (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 18 December 2013 16:38 (ten years ago) link
which is what i shd've said last night, duh. your sense of having free will is absolutely reconcilable with yr not actually having free will in the sense in which you feel like you do.
real problem: i'm using a dualist "you" in there aren't i? a you that has the experience and a sub-you that is emanating the will. lemme get back to that later.
― the five people you meet in Hedon (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 18 December 2013 16:41 (ten years ago) link
your sense of having free will is absolutely reconcilable with yr not actually having free will in the sense in which you feel like you do
This is possible since I'm not sure I can precisely define what free will is. But I do think that it is a very real thing, though perhaps hard to define precisely.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 19:43 (ten years ago) link
Important philosophical question. http://www.newappsblog.com/2013/12/should-i-try-to-fly-just-on-the-off-chance-that-this-might-be-a-dreambody.html
― jmm, Thursday, 19 December 2013 03:59 (ten years ago) link
Interesting to see how philosophers have been trying to reconcile determinism and free will since at least classical times. In those days it was framed more as free will vs. fate or divine foreknowledge, but the issues were quite similar. See e.g. St. Augustine's criticism of Cicero: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf102.iv.V.9.html
― o. nate, Thursday, 19 December 2013 16:52 (ten years ago) link
http://www.jehsmith.com/1/2014/01/my-faith-a-progress-report.html
This observation is childish, obvious, but no less true for that. It is important for me in particular to appreciate it, for over the past year one thing that has become clear to me is that both before and after my confession I was, and remain, an asshole. Many of the people who have encountered me, particularly those I do not know and with whom I have fleeting exchanges, would find it hilarious, absurd, and supremely hypocritical to learn that I have been carrying on in this space about my faith.What do I mean by 'asshole'? I mean I am brutally unkind to people. I am capable of displaying a sort of indignation in my interactions with ticket agents, telemarketers, strangers, that must be simply terrifying to experience. I am haughty, condescending, stubborn, awful. I am lucky I have never been taken away in handcuffs from my many scenes of protest.
What do I mean by 'asshole'? I mean I am brutally unkind to people. I am capable of displaying a sort of indignation in my interactions with ticket agents, telemarketers, strangers, that must be simply terrifying to experience. I am haughty, condescending, stubborn, awful. I am lucky I have never been taken away in handcuffs from my many scenes of protest.
this dude can really bring it
― j., Wednesday, 1 January 2014 22:01 (ten years ago) link
don't know who that is, but my views have a lot in common with his (& ilx seems not a place to get into it)
― Euler, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 23:00 (ten years ago) link
haha ok no I do know who that is
― Euler, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 23:01 (ten years ago) link
that's good stuff.
― ryan, Thursday, 2 January 2014 03:00 (ten years ago) link
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/jamiebartlett/100012093/meet-the-dark-enlightenment-sophisticated-neo-fascism-thats-spreading-fast-on-the-net/
This may not be entirely accurate but the gist seems to be right, didn't realise that Nick Land had gone so outrageously off the deep (deep deeper) end.
― Merdeyeux, Monday, 20 January 2014 21:20 (ten years ago) link
I got momentarily interested when I read the bit about rejecting democracy, liberty, and equality bc I figured there'd be something clever located in it but it turns out to just be more racist conspiracy theorists who i guess only happen to be interested in philosophy? zizek could do a better job wrt provocative "neo-reactionary" fascism.
― Mordy , Monday, 20 January 2014 21:35 (ten years ago) link
been reading old unread analytics
findings:
1. norman malcolm: tin-eared and tactless
2. moore: like if descartes was burning one 24-7
― j., Saturday, 22 February 2014 03:17 (ten years ago) link
man. genuine contrition from b. l31ter. never would have expected that.
― j., Friday, 7 March 2014 22:16 (ten years ago) link
it's been a fucked up week
― Euler, Friday, 7 March 2014 22:36 (ten years ago) link
this is more of an economics thing i guess, but whatever: i think i'm gonna order that piketty book tonight
― markers, Wednesday, 26 March 2014 01:21 (ten years ago) link
on a whim I got a new book called Derrida/Searle on my kindle. pretty good. nice refresher.
― ryan, Wednesday, 26 March 2014 01:29 (ten years ago) link
hadn't seen that before. did you ever end up continuing w/ yr laruelle reading?
― markers, Wednesday, 26 March 2014 02:13 (ten years ago) link
no I had to put it down for some compulsory reading and then shiny new books caught my eye. I will pick it up again soon though.
― ryan, Wednesday, 26 March 2014 02:25 (ten years ago) link
still haven't touched him since 2011, really, but there's new stuff out there now and am thinking of getting the one that anthony paul smith translated iirc. philosophy and non-philosophy?
― markers, Wednesday, 26 March 2014 02:27 (ten years ago) link
lol this isn't on 77 oops. hi anthony if you see this.
principles of non-philosophy is the name of the book according to amazon
that's the one I was reading. got about 1/3 of way through it.
― ryan, Wednesday, 26 March 2014 02:29 (ten years ago) link
ey markers that one's a co-translation you jerk.
― Merdeyeux, Wednesday, 26 March 2014 12:28 (ten years ago) link
you're right.
don't know who the other person is
― markers, Thursday, 27 March 2014 01:34 (ten years ago) link
i have a slight feeling you may though.
― markers, Thursday, 27 March 2014 01:35 (ten years ago) link
the dude (and in this case there is only one) who translated whichever book continuum (it was continuum back then) put out of laruelle's in 2011 works at a college not too far from my house
― markers, Thursday, 27 March 2014 02:00 (ten years ago) link
he and i should kick it sometime
there's just some tone that makes you sure way beforehand that you're going to be reading about speculative realism sooner or later in an essay
http://www.furtherfield.org/features/articles/ordinaryism-alternative-accelerationism-part-1-thanks-nothing
― j., Friday, 28 March 2014 22:01 (ten years ago) link
perhaps it's that combination of coining ever new silly slogans and neo-neo-romanticism.
― ryan, Friday, 28 March 2014 22:41 (ten years ago) link
are they the ones who coined 'accelerationism' or is that some outside thing?
god, speculative realists, bleh
― j., Friday, 28 March 2014 22:46 (ten years ago) link
I'd never heard of it before!
― ryan, Friday, 28 March 2014 22:47 (ten years ago) link
i hear it a lot but i thought it was connected to, like, the singularity, and who can be bothered to investigate such things
― j., Friday, 28 March 2014 22:47 (ten years ago) link
― markers, Thursday, March 27, 2014 1:35 AM (2 days ago)
I know eeeeeverybody. Though yeah. But my more general thing here is attacking this common tendency (not at all to accuse you of anything here) of devaluing the female side of male-female duos in philosophy.
re accelerationism, it comes from the CCRU and Nick Land especially, associated with an odd right-Deleuzian vs left-Deleuzian thing that took place at late '90s Warwick - Land being in the right camp and pushing for a kind of hyper-capitalism that tears itself apart. Then Land lost his mind and is now a bizarre white supremacist. It's been picked up again recently by leftists like Srnicek and Williams but it is still I think deeply ~problematic~ and at times a bit scary sounding, despite the good intentions this time around. The volume that's on it that's going to be released on Urbanomic comes with a bottle of accelerationism hot sauce, which is a very good gimmick imo.
― Merdeyeux, Saturday, 29 March 2014 01:07 (ten years ago) link