Ultimately, her criticisms of Streep could conceivably be about a lot of things, but particularly in hindsight, they hardly seem to have anything to do with Meryl Streep. Here, as was so often the case, Pauline Kael’s true subject may have been Pauline Kael.
like this seems rly insulting to me
― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 30 January 2014 16:49 (ten years ago) link
Not understanding the critical fuss over Streep's early performances is one of the few things on which Kael and I agree thee days. Streep's acting started to loosen with The Bridges of Madison County, which is still one of her best perfs.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 30 January 2014 16:50 (ten years ago) link
I mean, her line about Streep – "She's made a career out of being miscast" – was otm
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 30 January 2014 16:51 (ten years ago) link
I'd put it at A Cry in the Dark xp
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 30 January 2014 16:51 (ten years ago) link
that one's good too because her tics merged with the character she was playing (a fussy, shadowy woman whose motives are suspect).
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 30 January 2014 16:52 (ten years ago) link
Just glanced at it very quickly and this jumped out:
Kael first noticed Streep in The Deer Hunter, and actually singled the actress out for praise (calling her “a real beauty...(who) doesn’t do anything standard; everything seems fresh”) in what was otherwise an incensed pan of Michael Cimino’s Vietnam War film.
I'm at work and can't check her full review, but from memory, I'm sure that's wrong. A line from the online blurb:
And because the director, Michael Cimino, plays them out on such a vast canvas, the film has an inchoate, stirring quality. It has no more moral intelligence than the Clint Eastwood action pictures, yet it's an astonishing piece of work, an uneasy mixture of violent pulp and grandiosity, with an enraptured view of common life-poetry of the commonplace.
She thought it was nuts, and it is, but clearly she thought it was a sometimes stunning piece of filmmaking. And it is.
― clemenza, Thursday, 30 January 2014 17:22 (ten years ago) link
good work; can't say i'm suprised, cuz it's Karina Longworth.
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 30 January 2014 17:24 (ten years ago) link
Kael first noticed Streep in The Deer Hunter, and actually singled the actress out for praise (calling her “a real beauty...(who) doesn’t do anything standard; everything seems fresh”) in what was otherwise an incensed pan of Michael Cimino’s Vietnam War film
That's really in there. Also, "it's a testament to Meryl Streep's heroic resources as a mime that she makes herself felt - she has practically no lines."
― Josefa, Thursday, 30 January 2014 17:34 (ten years ago) link
I just finished it. I'm not taken with critical writing that speculates on motives, but that's my peculiarity.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 30 January 2014 17:47 (ten years ago) link
in another words, the entire Armond White thread? (critical writing about critics' motives, that is.)
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 30 January 2014 17:49 (ten years ago) link
Too bad Kael retired before Death Becomes Her came out. Can't think of a Streep performance that would've been more up her alley.
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Thursday, 30 January 2014 18:01 (ten years ago) link
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Thursday, January 30, 2014 12:24 PM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark
who
― Hungry4Ass, Thursday, 30 January 2014 18:18 (ten years ago) link
she does some great stuff then she says 'trash humpers' is the best movie of the year so idk
― Insane Prince of False Binaries (Gukbe), Friday, 31 January 2014 04:22 (ten years ago) link
For a second I thought above post was re: Kael, which confused me on several levels.
― Inside Lewellyn Sinclair (cryptosicko), Friday, 31 January 2014 04:23 (ten years ago) link
this essay was weird. she acknowledges that streep's comments about kael were gross (streep basically accused her of reverse racism, and only after kael wasn't around to respond - would love to be a fly on the wall if kael came up at a lunch between streep and andrew sarris), but then basically suggests in the closing paragraph that streep was right, at least in that kael's critique was not worth taking seriously. only she never explains what exactly kael failed to grasp about streep's work in the '80s. I do think Kael would have liked some of Streep's later work - at her best (usually in comedies), she reminds me of a professor who finally relaxed after getting tenure.
― da croupier, Friday, 31 January 2014 07:03 (ten years ago) link
and yeah, "an incensed pan" is a shockingly reductive way to describe a review that contains lines like "The Deer Hunter is a small-minded film with greatness in it - Cimino's technique has pushed him further than he has been able to think out."
― da croupier, Friday, 31 January 2014 07:10 (ten years ago) link
I can't place in which essay Kael wondered aloud how awesome Streep would be if she starred in more comedies.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 31 January 2014 11:55 (ten years ago) link
I do think Kael would have liked some of Streep's later work - at her best (usually in comedies), she reminds me of a professor who finally relaxed after getting tenure.
One performance I think she would have liked--maybe even loved--was Streep in Albert Brooks' Defending Your LIfe. She's so flaky and funny in that film. Kael's last review was L.A. Story, which came out, according to IMDB, Feb. 8, 1991; Defending Your LIfe was March 22, 1991, so she just missed it.
― clemenza, Friday, 31 January 2014 12:43 (ten years ago) link
She's become an actor only capable of greatness -- great theatricality or great awfulness -- which I think she would've responded to.
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Friday, 31 January 2014 13:10 (ten years ago) link
So winning that third Oscar was akin to Streep becoming university president.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 31 January 2014 14:06 (ten years ago) link
Yes, the Academy of the Overrated.
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Friday, 31 January 2014 14:10 (ten years ago) link
The third Oscar was more an emeritus thing. She should have got it for Julie and Julia, between that and the memo getting out she hadn't actually won in like twenty years, she was officially Overdue An Oscar and got one as soon as the competition waned, almost irrespective to the winning role's quality.
― da croupier, Friday, 31 January 2014 17:26 (ten years ago) link
No doubt. The "she MUST have a third Oscar" campaign began in 2002 and got more and more absurd (I prefer TDWP though). Those two consecutive late nineties nods look ridiculous in retrospect as I don't remember enthusiasm for either movie and she had no buzz.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 31 January 2014 17:34 (ten years ago) link
great theatricality or great awfulness
http://monstergirl.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/zee-and-stella.jpg
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Friday, 31 January 2014 17:37 (ten years ago) link
Exactly!
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Friday, 31 January 2014 17:39 (ten years ago) link
She should have got it for Julie and Julia
she was good in this otherwise terrible movie
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 31 January 2014 17:42 (ten years ago) link
she loved Taylor in that one, X Y & Zee xp
certainly not what Streep seemed to be aiming for 30 years ago, is it? She's very funny in Demme's Manchurian Candidate, maybe Kael would've liked that.
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Friday, 31 January 2014 17:43 (ten years ago) link
can we agree she's awful when she tries to be "light"? In It's Complicated every other sound is a giggle, every line a roll of the eyes. It's like ugggggh choke on your Oscar, lady
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 31 January 2014 17:46 (ten years ago) link
Ranking the "Streep's overdue" string:
The Devil Wears PradaJulie v. JuliaDoubtThe Iron Lady
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Friday, 31 January 2014 17:50 (ten years ago) link
Adaptation is probably better than any of them tho, excepting maybe Prada.
devil wears prada
― Hungry4Ass, Friday, 31 January 2014 17:52 (ten years ago) link
tom except The Iron Lady is rank, not deserving of rank.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 31 January 2014 17:54 (ten years ago) link
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Thursday, January 30, 2014 1:01 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This. The movie, too--just the right blend of light playfulness and giddy tastelessness that I could see Kael responding to.
― Inside Lewellyn Sinclair (cryptosicko), Friday, 31 January 2014 17:56 (ten years ago) link
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/SmithsRank.jpg
― Wild Mountain Armagideon Thyme (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 31 January 2014 17:57 (ten years ago) link
prada too, yeah, though that would have been a supporting award - i just think that losing after one of her rare truly loved performances to sandra bullock's corn tipped the scales for an "ok, next time WE PROMISE" Scent of A Woman trophy. I wouldn't be surprised if McConaughey's getting his this year, with DiCaprio then "seriously overdue" after that.
― da croupier, Friday, 31 January 2014 17:59 (ten years ago) link
Granted.
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Friday, 31 January 2014 17:59 (ten years ago) link
Agree that The Devil Wears Prada is the best performance of the "Streep's overdue" run, but the movie lets her down by being more about Anne Hathaway's dullard of a character than about Streep's.
The Iron Lady still the strangest bad movie I've seen in years; why make a film about so contentious a figure and then have the whole thing be her stumbling around her house talking to her dead husband?
― Inside Lewellyn Sinclair (cryptosicko), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:00 (ten years ago) link
you prefer a movie about Thatcher stumbling around the White House talking to a dead Reagan?
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:01 (ten years ago) link
Might be an improvement.
― Inside Lewellyn Sinclair (cryptosicko), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:01 (ten years ago) link
would've preferred a movie of her eating babies
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:02 (ten years ago) link
poor, card-carrying union member babies
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:03 (ten years ago) link
The Devil Wears Prada and The Iron Lady are on my never-watch list
(Pauline Kael's too, I hear)
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:04 (ten years ago) link
like Julie and Julia, DWP features a decent Streep perf in an otherwise abominable movie
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:05 (ten years ago) link
The Devil Wears Prada is an easy watch! Fast forward thru the Hathaway parts (Tucci's good too).
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:05 (ten years ago) link
Yes! DWP so needs a Phantom Menace-style fan edit!
― Inside Lewellyn Sinclair (cryptosicko), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:05 (ten years ago) link
it's interesting how except for TIL her need-a-third-Oscar-run consists of modest to huge box office hits. I mean, like, she's a legit star now.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:06 (ten years ago) link
Not a single one of the last five movies Streep has been nominated for are really any good. (Nor are most of the rest of the movies she was nominated for, as it turns out.)
― Alfre, Lord Woodard (Eric H.), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:06 (ten years ago) link
man A Cry in the Dark really is the best of those movies, isn't it?
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:08 (ten years ago) link
trying to think if she's ever done a straight horror flick...? I would be into that
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:08 (ten years ago) link
Closest she got was probably The River Wild. Or Mamma Mia.
― Inside Lewellyn Sinclair (cryptosicko), Friday, 31 January 2014 18:09 (ten years ago) link