Will that guy on Jeopardy ever lose?

I gather it's "playing to tie" that's the interesting game theory part.

Explained here: http://youtu.be/hRfXzrTDY-Y

lol, would love to hear more of this game theory = antiasian racism hypothesis

and it's totally dissimilar from press yr luck guy who simply cheated

yeah I hadn't heard of the "playing to tie" thing before and I guess I don't really understand it

memorizing the board patterns isn't cheating! if it was they wouldn't have paid him.

lol, would love to hear more of this game theory = antiasian racism hypothesis

― balls, Wednesday, February 5, 2014 10:43 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

My tongue was half in my cheek (and look who I was responding to) but

As others have pointed out he's not the first Jeopardy pro-gamer to use game theory in playing

After he's gone viral about half the stories on the first page of a google search are about his 'game theory' techniques, the other half just call him the 'Jeopardy Villain'

Oh & looks like this guy went to Swarthmore. Of course

Seems to me that at least half the story here, if not more, is that he is causing the good-natured folks who watch Jeopardy to become upset and it's not their fault. He is at least a social deviant if not worse and the root of his illness must be rooted out and excised

suspect there have been people who have applied game theory to non-academic settings and come off as assholes before. maybe google 'wall street' and 'villain'.

yeah I hadn't heard of the "playing to tie" thing before and I guess I don't really understand it

i haven't watched the video that jmm posted above because i'm at work, but i thought that he wagered an amount in the final round that would allow another (weaker) contestant to tie him so that they would both move on to the next game. in the clip i watched, the other player who he allowed to tie him was way behind him in $ before the final round. if that meant that she was clearly the weaker contestant, then he would have an interest in bringing her along to the next game because that would effectively reduce his true competition. it would just be him, the clearly weaker player that he strung along, and a third contestant.

suspect there have been people who have applied game theory to non-academic settings and come off as assholes before. maybe google 'wall street' and 'villain'.

― balls, Wednesday, February 5, 2014 10:55 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

Everybody loves Leo DiCaprio, though. What a loveable asshole

Anyway I am rolling back my antiAsian theory after reading that Fox News is on his side http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/04/jeopardy-contestant-arthur-chu-defends-controversial-strategy/

the press your luck guy "cheated" the same way card counters "cheat", iirc

re: the tying strategy - it's not something you could exploit every game, but he clearly seized on the opportunity to improve his chances for the next game. pretty smart, i'd say!

btw, lol at a the large segment of the internet's reaction to this guy that's like "he's not doing anything great, everyone knows this stuff". yeah, clearly if any of US were on jeopardy we'd be busting out the game theory moves left and right

My impression is that if he's allowing someone to tie him then that person may be a threat to beat him though I was missing that he likely had a huge lead when this happened. Sending a message of "I want you to appear on the next show because I think you're below average" does seem rather villainous even if it is brilliant.

http://i.imgur.com/zSHQHdZ.png

Who are these people. I recognize Pierce Brosnan but none of the others

those ppl always look alike to me

so how many episodes has he won so far, 3 or is it 4 now? it seems like a lot of press coverage even if it's his playing style that's getting the attention, are winning streaks of more than a couple days that rare?

I think it's up to 5? And they're doing a Tournie so he's not back until the end of Feb

Also pure game theory disregards the mental states of the contestants

http://thefinalwager.co/2014/01/29/final-jeopardy-january-29-2014/

The first is based strictly on game theory. The whole point of Jeopardy! (see my Rule #0) is to come back the next day; you have a higher chance of doing so if you withhold that extra dollar.

Whether you’re playing a proven challenger or a random player from the pool in your next game is irrelevant. Thinking about your next game is like looking down the field for the end zone before you’ve caught the ball. You need to BE in that next game for it to matter!

yeah, clearly if any of US were on jeopardy we'd be busting out the game theory moves left and right

I remember a category in Double Jeopardy "also a chess piece" which was super easy, considering there are only 6 pieces and five of them were answers, I mean I got them all and I'm pretty stupid. Last clue of the category was a daily double and I was sure the contestant would wager everything, there's only 2 possible answers barring some sort of odd curveball that they almost never do. Alas he/she (can't remember who it was) only wagered $2000 and it was another really easy one, but I was really bothered because really "how do you not wager it all there". I mean I would think most people at home were thinking the same thing but actually being on the show (especially given its fast pace) is probably something else entirely. I mean NFL coaches are constantly terrible at 4th down/punting decisions even though they're clearly smart enough to understand basic game theory stuff. I guess I just don't get it.

ok this graph explains it pretty well

http://thefinalwager.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/The-Final-Wager-Guide-to-Game-Theory-dominance-Slide-11-1024x576.png

doesn't seem to me that it's about trying to get a weaker player in the next game - more that if the trailing player bets enough to cover if you go for a double up + $1 of his score and fail then they win, if you don't bet the extra dollar then you tie. I imagine the show pays both contestants in that case and thus the producers are probably not too happy about this.

the press your luck guy "cheated" the same way card counters "cheat", iirc

i don't really think this is cheating unless you're using external aids. anything that boils down to "using your brain to think about different things than most players" isn't cheating imo

yeah I hadn't heard of the "playing to tie" thing before and I guess I don't really understand it

i would assume its because you're goal is not strictly to 'win' but to maximize the amount of money you get. whether or not another player comes back tomorrow as well is irrelevant to you so risking an extra dollar to be the 'sole winner' is unnecessary and probably riskier. i havent thought about it at all but theres also the possibility that, if the other contestants know you are 'betting to tie' you position them for a less optimal wager.

haha i assume one of the five posts in between when i started typing that and managed to finish has explained the exact same thing but better, but i want to attempt looking smart

Anyway balls if you're looking for a serious answer from me, I just think that enough of the non-racial 'factors' for his virality have been knocked down that I can't disqualify his Asian-ness from being a motivating one. At the very least you can't deny that the man fits very, very neatly into the widespread stereotype of the Asian nerd - I mean just look at him. I'm as receptive as anyone to a convincing, non-racial explanation and I probably have more invested in his race being a non-factor than most people who watch the show. Your point about game theory and the head honchos of Wall Street would have been well accepted if I had felt that 'game theory' had even occupied a small part of the mindspace surrounding the financial crisis. I'll offer a non-racial explanation here: maybe there's a perfect storm here of game theory + social media bloom (Twitter not being nearly as influential in 2011 back when, according to posts itt the last major game theory-user played) + nü-focus on stats and alt ways of thinking-about-games bleedover from sabrmetrics and sportsheads. Or maybe it's because he has a fat head and small eyes and wears glasses and presses the clicker a lot. I dunno.

dude i just saw a cool sounding story about a dude gaming jeopardy to win so i copied and pasted, i doubt most virality vector-helpers have much more going on than that either

yeah i think the tying thing is just that it's irrelevant if you actually "win" the game... you go to the next day regardless

I'm not implicating you j. or anyone itt at all! I was asked to give an explanation so I turned down the snark for a post and did so. That's all

man shouldn't we be turning all this heavy analytical machinery on world hunger or something

people are angry because he's playing the game as written, not as normally played. people play jeopardy like the goal is to answer questions correctly and do so more often than your competitors

in reality, the goal of jeopardy is to maximize the number of dollars you get and move on to the next round. allowing someone else to get the same amount as you and move to the next round has no negative effect on you. the board-jumping might be annoying to viewers, but getting butthurt about a tie is just outing the tendency of people to love zero-sum games and hate cooperation

you do still have to beat people on buzzer races, which you don't if they're eliminated

Also I'm having a pretty hard day. I had just bought this big ice cream cone and, just as I was about to have some, it fell off the cone and onto the ground before I could lick, balls then asked that question, so I was pretty ornery in my response. I'm sorry

between the three week break and all the press this has gotten i wonder if someone will try to flip this strategy back on him when they come back

Almost all of the contestants on Jeopardy wager horribly, especially from the 2nd place position. It's good to see somebody put thought into the wagers.

in a few of the games he's had a pretty average round but he can pick up like 8k in a minute and essentially end the game

lol there was no offense of any kind taken dayo

mad sympathy for your cone plop

xp yeah, the buzzing in and normal jeopardy parts are someone zero sum in that points you don't get *could* go to your competitors assuming they answer the question correctly. but final jeopardy, which can affect the whole game, definitely isn't

also, hunting like mad for the daily double and then just immediately answering "lol I dunno" is pretty classic

My impression is that they tape several shows in a row, right? Like they do the whole season in like a few weeks or less

arthur's buzzer mashing is hilarious too, it's very childlike

between the three week break and all the press this has gotten i wonder if someone will try to flip this strategy back on him when they come back

― le goon (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, February 5, 2014 9:29 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i would imagine his 'return' episodes are already taped...don't they usually work about 4-5 weeks ahead?

wow so you nerd still watch a lotta jeopardy huh

Back when I used to watch Jeop on the reg, nearly every show had a button masher tho

I do agree that Arthur's APM is impressive compared to the rest (only true Azn nerds will get this joke)

for the hive, right

you do still have to beat people on buzzer races, which you don't if they're eliminated

sure, but you're going to have to beat someone on buzzer races in the next taping - it shouldnt matter to you if its current contestant A or next taping hopeful B

between the three week break and all the press this has gotten i wonder if someone will try to flip this strategy back on him when they come back

yeah this is interesting to me - other players knowing you are aggressively hunting for the daily doubles means they should be doing the same, but other players knowing you are 'playing for the tie' makes wagering potentially trickier for contestants going into final jeopardy in second place.

Also I'm having a pretty hard day. I had just bought this big ice cream cone and, just as I was about to have some, it fell off the cone and onto the ground before I could lick, balls then asked that question, so I was pretty ornery in my response. I'm sorry

― 龜, Wednesday, February 5, 2014 10:28 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this post has the most important comma of all time

I do agree that Arthur's APM is impressive compared to the rest (only true Azn nerds will get this joke)

dont front like you even

Kekekekeke

lol you seriously think 'this guy plays the game in a way that is beneficial to him but ruins the experience for much of the audience and comes across as against the spirit of the game' has been 'knocked down' but 'america has never seen an asian nerd on jeopardy before and is in a panic' stands up? which while not denying dude is asian and a nerd he hardly fits the stereotype of the asian nerd, you might want to revisit sixteen candles and revenge of the nerds again. anyone who applies game theory or really any kind of counterintuitive strategizing to a non-academic arena (ESP an actual game, where winning is the point on a micro level but entertainment is the point on a macro level)(hence alot of ppl bitching about moneyball in the early 00s not cuz they thought it didn't work but cuz it made for boring fucking baseball even by baseball's standards).