Is this the Juno thread?

No I didn't.

Oh maybe that was the woman who got knocked up in Knocked Up, then.

To make it clear, I'm not just criticizing Juno (obviously if she'd had an abortion it would've been a totally different movie) but the trend in American movies that abortion is simply something that never happens, even though it does in real life. I can't help but think this is because American movie-makers don't want to upset any potential section of the audience.

-- Tuomas, 28. tammikuuta 2008 9:40 (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Link

Oh, my mistake. You just wanted American audiences to be different than they are.

btw, i am teasing et al

So yeah, I wasn't criticizing Juno as an individual film, just pointing out a trend. As for Knocked Up, I found it weird that the female protagonist, who didn't seem very conservative, never even considered abortion as an option.

(xx-post)

She didn't have an abortion because she didn't want Judith Light coming in and turning her into a Lifetime movie.

or the other blonde woman sitcom mom, rather

Knocked Up was self-serving ass. Juno was wonderful. The end.

czn is right that garner is, agains the odds, sort of the best thing in it. though i am a sucker for women characters telling fuckwitted perma-teen dudes to man up, for some reason.

cera can't do another movie in this persona.

xpost

we've done this tuomas, but the girl in 'knocked up' does consider it. she doesn't have a badly dramatized scene where she goes to a clinic and decides against even seeing a doctor on the grounds that uhhhh it smells like a dentist and a minor character from a wes anderson film is picketing the place.

alba that's BS. this film was ersatz rubbish.

we've done this tuomas, but the girl in 'knocked up' does consider it.

Er, no she doesn't. It's her mom who broughts up the option, and she's like "no". Plus the mom isn't depicted very positively in that scene.

NRQ, I am seriously with you 100 percent on this.

broughts = brings

that's one bring that can't be unbroughten, homeskillet

tuomas, she considers it. that doesn't mean there's a scene where she "considers it."

there kind of is in the deleted scenes tho. i know irl non-christian people who just would not have an abortion if they were in her position, though, if you can handle that idea.

the narrative was a 5/10 but there were so many things in this film that were disgusting or lazy (dialogue, art design, music, ellen page) that it has to be one of the least enjoyable things I've seen at the cinema in years.

i think the *idea* was that beneath her brittle, amazingly annoying exterior, there was hiding an emotionally immature girl in juno. they spectacularly failed to get this idea over by making it a metronomic one-liner-fest with a couple of 'big scenes' thrown for the pros to get them to work below their quote.

it's hardly an "idea". cera specifically calls her on it.

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/diablo-cody-screenplay.php

apologies if that's already been linked. no way do I want to reread this thread.

or to get award noms, one of the two. felt really mechanical either way -- no chemistry between any of the performers -- i guess they have to fit their five days of shooting into their schedules as best they can.

xposts to me

this thread is harsh. predictably.

it's hardly an "idea". cera specifically calls her on it.

-- Simon H., Friday, February 15, 2008 12:18 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

he doesn't know the half of it -- i mean that juno doesn't 'get' the situation she's getting into with garner/bateman, and that she gets burned, and we see that beneath the brittle, punchable exterior, etc etc.

big lols @ eric's link.

i didn't even think that 'garden state' was THAT BAD; i was totes meh on 'napoleon dynamite', but this was some next lev awfulness.

tuomas yknow it's possible for a person to, like, not want to personally get an abortion and yet not be one of those scary conservative americans that horrify you so much

Yeah, I know - like I said in the Knocked Up thread, the film could've had a scene where she explained that she didn't want an abortion for personal reasons (rather than religious or ideological or whatever reasons), and that would've fine by me, but it didn't even have that. The film simply didn't give her any sort of motivation or justification for keeping the baby, as if it weren't an issue at all.

tuomas, she considers it. that doesn't mean there's a scene where she "considers it."

If the film doesn't have any scenes where she considers it, how do you know she does? Can you read the minds of movie charcaters?

Juno IS an abortion next to 4 Months 3 Weeks & 2 Days lols amirite?

Yeah, I know - like I said in the Knocked Up thread, the film could've had a scene where she explained that she didn't want an abortion for personal reasons (rather than religious or ideological or whatever reasons), and that would've fine by me, but it didn't even have that. The film simply didn't give her any sort of motivation or justification for keeping the baby, as if it weren't an issue at all.

'tuomas, she considers it. that doesn't mean there's a scene where she "considers it."'

If the film doesn't have any scenes where she considers it, how do you know she does? Can you read the minds of movie charcaters?

-- Tuomas, Friday, February 15, 2008 8:19 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

i love that you think it's possible to split 'personal' from 'ideological' or 'religious' reasons; but anyhoo, you don't need justification or motivation for *not* having an abortion. some people just don't want one because (in her case anyway, one infers) they have a diffuse desire to have a child, they don't want to go through an abortion, and they worry it might mess up their junk, worry they might regret it (which, shockingly, some women do). you make having a kid sound abnormal. allowing all this stuff isn't 'anti-abortion'.

in the deleted scene it's a combination of unspoken stuff (it being a movie rather than a psychological novel), and also seeing the baby's heart beating on a monitor -- or at least, that's how she explains it to rogen. you kind of *can* kind of read the minds of movie characters -- if you relied solely on what they said you wouldn't get what was going on most of the time.

(the weakest thing in the movie, plausibility-wise, is heigl's living situation -- she's financially independent but living at her sister's house, and doesn't seem to have other men in her life.)

you don't need justification or motivation for *not* having an abortion. some people just don't want one because (in her case anyway, one infers) they have a diffuse desire to have a child, they don't want to go through an abortion, and they worry it might mess up their junk, worry they might regret it (which, shockingly, some women do).

And these are not justifications or motivations for keeping the baby? Like I already said, I totally agree that people decide to keep unwanted babies for a variety of reasons, but the movie didn't bother to shed any light on her specific reasons. So I'm not really saying that Knocked Up is explicitly pro-life rather than that the character wasn't very well written.

Hmm, naybe "unwanted" was the wrong word, what I meant is "unplanned".

wokay, i'm back-reading a bunch of stuff on juno. this was andrew sarris's *favourite film of 2007*?????!!!!!! what the shit bro.

I enjoyed this, but I don't really have any interest in defending it. I think NRQ is correct about this not being anti-abortion in itself but actually the fact that there was a baby involved AT ALL didn't quite seem plausible until the last 20mins or so because it was all so cartoonish.

Abortions or lack of them or otherwise, there isn't really any great psychological motivation for anything anyone other than the Garner/Batemen characters. It's glib as fuck and that's mostly why I enjoyed it but also why I can see it being hugely annoying.

oh the film i was saying wan't anti-abortion is the ol' alexander payne film 'citizen ruth' (1996). i don't think this is anti-abortion either ftr, but yeah the plot point in 'juno' of her yucking out on the clinic and therefore deciding against was pretty weak.

garner i bought, but bateman -- i semi-lolled at his line that 1993 was the high point for rock music, but wasn't sure if we were meant to feel his pain a little, if it was even a joek! doesn't he have any bros to tell him that his chances of becoming a rock star in his mid-30s are approx nil and that he's a big skeez?

reminded me of a film only i have seen, the recent terrible gwyneth paltrow-martin freeman-simon pegg-penelope cruz vehicle, 'the good night', in which freeman plays a, yep, former britpop dude-turned-jaded advert-jingle-writer, who, yep, tries to pursue a diastrous 'romantic' dream and fucks up his loveless relationship.

I don't think we were suppose to feel his pain, dude was hella creepy.

The plot point of her yucking out of the clinic was pretty weak, but then again the plot of her going 'yeah I want these two to have my baby' was pretty weak and the plot of her going 'hey I'm in love with this kid' was pretty weak. I suppose the whole point is that she's precocious but not mature enough to make these decisions herself but the characterisation of the parents didn't really help either.

Rly? I thought less "creepy" more "grow up loser", sure it was a bit heavy handed re the rock and roll dream but theres a bit of this jerk in many 30 something guys. a bit anxious with the start, the dreadful phone call dialog etc and just generally trying way too hard, but it calmed down enough and didnt descend into a Superbad like moral cringefest. Lovely little movie.

you don't think scheming on the easily impressed 16-year-old kid who trusts you (as half of a couple) with her kid is creepy?!

he was creepy and 'grow up loser' at the same time.

how in shit did superbad turn into a moral cringefest? i grant you there's a "moral" in there somewhere, but, well, it's done somewhat less cringily than this thing.

Superbad >>>> Juno >>>> Knocked Up

<<<<Eagle vs Shark

NRQ guess so when you put it like that, it just wasnt wasnt what sunk in about him for me. I take it you also liked superbad, such a great start, got me again I cant recall what I found so goddam preachy and odious about the ending of that movie, just lots of groaning and thinking about walking out of this cheesy shit.

Would you have preferred it if they'd just got the girls really drunk and fucked them?

*nods*

Hi Matt of course not, just pwned hard. You KNOW what Im talking about.

Diablo Cody looks and and sounds like Ally's imaginary older sister. Is it just me that thinks this everytime there is an interview. I really wish this movie had been good.

This movie made me shit blood. I think we can all find comfort in that this movie probably marks the end to this decade's obsession with IrOniC PoP CuLTURE rEfRenCEs and CoOl INDie Rock ... it's like one movie can represent an entire decade's worth of culture jumping the shark.

As in, all the "2 cool 4 u" types are going to try as hard as humanly possible not to resemble anything like what this movie depicted.

The Notebook did the same thing.

That one guy that hit it and quit it OTM all the way

Trying to figure out who Juno talks like, going through a list of actresses/characters like Janeane Garofalo, maybe Darlene in Roseanne...

Then it hit me... Christian Slater!

Thought it sucked, btw.

This movie made me shit blood.

Can we declare the hyperbole sweepstakes on this flick officially over?

this movie made me miscarry.

Overall I liked this movie a lot but still think it would be an abomination for it to win Best Pic. Though I haven't seen any of the other nominees, so who knows? Maybe this is the best of them.