Jeremy Clarkson's "The World According To Clarkson" is one of Penguin's "best books of its kind to be published in recent years"

I guess it comes down to the fact that outside of legal matters, you can do something on accident and still be very, very wrong. The entire "it was an accident" doesn't make casual racism less wrong. Makes it worse in some ways, because it's the ingrained shit that's insidious.

yeah - i just keep coming back to the vision of clarkson manfully, heroically straining not to say "nigger" in front of a rolling television camera

But he doesn't think it's ok. He had them not use that take because he doesn't think it's ok. I think it's wrong to wrap up that "segment of society" you speak of with this or anything else he does, though I understand the urge to.

who gives a shit if he _accidentally_ said a rhyme or if he meant to say something else

I do. My dad would repeatedly refer to "colored" people even after being told several times that it was an outdated term. He had just been saying if for so long that it was hard to break the habit. If he had been a public figure and let that slip out, omg RACIST. But I have never heard him say truly racist things or do any racist acts. Things aren't that simple and it helps nothing (other than the judger's ego) to call for someone to lose their job over such things.

"colored" is about 1000000 miles away from the n-word, come on now

Tracer, I think absence has something to do with it. I've heard "he jewed me down on the price" or similar weird slurs more from people who don't even get the implications than anyone else. If you're referring to a person with a slur it's direct, but if you're throwing one into a joke or using some phrase you never thought about it's passive and supposedly no big deal to the Clarksons of the world

Granny, if you're dad was a public figure, would he apologize, or just be sorry someone saw hat footage? Because Clarkson is kind of leaning on the latter.

accidental acts can still be really wrong, and worthy of apology given the context, to repeat a point

the idea the the n-word was at one time okay, and now times have changed, is absurd

xpost - yeah i do think it's true that if the BBC hired more black and asian production staff the clarksons of this world would be spared that difficult decision about whether or not to spout racist epithets when presenting their television shows

it is Tracer, that wasn't my point that they were equal terms. Clarkson grew up where n-word was part of that rhyme, it was engrained in his brain that way. My dad grew up calling black people "colored", it was engrained in his brain. They both let the word slip out even though they knew it should never ever be said any longer because they were habituated to use it (for Clarkson, merely in this particular rhyme). Clarkson may be a horrible racist, and there's enough evidence to say he's too eager to use racist terms in a jokey way, but to call for his resignation for this eeny meeny mo episode seems overblown to me.

But this is just the latest gleeful slur in a long line of gleeful slurs! And I am really sick of white people (because it's never, ever anyone else) asking for another pass for this arsehole who has the n-word engrained in his brain. Most white people don't.

The Mexican stuff is way more egregious to me because it's not merely "a ha, out of context and directed at no one you said this epithet, BUSTED!" but rather actual negative ethnic stereotypes were voiced.

Not sure that in 2014, 'colored' is that much less offensive than the n-word.

uh I don't think this single incident is why people are up in arms

Also, you're comparing a term that was seen as neutral and used positively by black people to a racial epithet. I mean, unless Clarkson was born in the 1800s and that was the word everyone used

it's not about him being _racist_, it's about the acceptance of passive racism as something that's fine to partake in accidentally or casually! who gives a fuck what people accidentally say, as long as they react as human beings who don't devalue other human beings intentionally

i grew up where white people said the n-word all the time - it was just another word people used to describe people - but because i'm not completely brain-dead i have learned that it's probably the single most unacceptable word that i can use. clarkson is a man of the world, he's not some shut-in, he's had plenty of time get right with jesus about that rhyme. that he's chosen not to says everything you need to know about him in this regard imo

It's not like it slipped out by accident. He did two takes where the joke was 'I'm saying a racist epithet but saying it in an unintelligible way' and then one where the word was replaced completely.

idgaf about the dude's thing he says accidentally, and I commend him for airing a different take, but "I am sorry I said that" plays a lot better than the "oh, you caught me!" crap that is a long-standing thing he does

who has the n-word engrained in his brain.

see you went from what I said to this statement, ignoring the crucial "(for Clarkson, merely in this particular rhyme)." bit.
I get that this isn't his 1st "offense"; that's exactly what I said, people have already decided he's a racist asshole prior to this. By itself, I don't see the outrage; place it amongst all the racist and quasi racist stuff he's said and done and ok sure go ahead and hate the guy.

I mean, you can keep pretending this is people angry about a man accidentally saying a racist nursery rhyme unintentionally, Granny, but I don't think anyone else in the thread is saying that's the case

btw your dad is passively racist in 2014 if he says "colored" and doesn't give a fuck if it's wrong or right. but as you said, he knows it's wrong and (probably) corrects himself?

btw I don't have a proverbial horse here and have enjoyed some bits of the guy's television show but I think his unreconstructed old white man pose is harmful

I wouldn't complain if I didn't think he could change, and him not changing and not being reprimanded is pretty much an admission it's ok to do this shit, which is what I have an objection with.

and contributes to the not entirely incorrect impression of the BBC as a place where chauvinistic white men get to behave however they want for years with little to no comeback until after they're dead

"it is crazy that he got away with that stuff, but hey, 2014 was a different time"

agree that "unreconstructed old white man pose is harmful", but also think that calling for sacking of someone for having an "unreconstructed old white man pose" is also harmful.

yeah, won't somebody think of the racists, quality trolling, a+++

yep if you're not out to get him, you're supporting those racists and are just as bad! great way to silence any opposition, paint them as racists too, a++++

ok, let's try to take emotion out of it. how many racial epithets do you think a TV broadcaster should be allowed to use before they are not allowed on TV anymore?

I am 100% for Donald Sterling getting punished and losing his NBA franchise for making despicable outright nasty racist statements during a private conversation. I am against Clarkson losing his job for this, though I guess sure fine him to "send a message".

also think that calling for sacking of someone for having an "unreconstructed old white man pose" is also harmful

oh really? what if we add "unrepentant" to that for the fact he's been called out on this shit for years?

I am 100% for someone using a time travel machine to go back in time and slap the shit out of the NBA officials who did nothing when Donald Sterling was guilty of being racist as fuck with housing practices and his business deals

if you fine him the message is "it's cool to be racist if you're rich"

it's like a swear jar you put pennies in

I don't think it's fair to boil this down to "broadcaster uses racial epithet". Viewing this identically to someone just randomly calling someone or some group the n-word isn't the right thing to do imo.

you are literally the only one attempting to boil it down to that

except I was responding to NV who just had done that?

everyone else in the thread is saying it's typical coming from a guy who uses language and attitudes in a way that upholds institutional racism, and that people in England (which I do not believe is where you are) are negatively affected by having someone acting this way on their /state-funded/ media, and that he's been given a number of opportunities to change his behavior and they're tired of it

I mean, brits, let me know if I am at all in the wrong, here

I assume you're either straight trolling or being obtuse because you want to give this guy a big high-five for his car bantz, in either case, adios.

i think white TV broadcasters joking about "not being allowed" to use the n-word are making a racist point, especially if they have a history of making racist points. i don't think there's a generally accepted rule that it's okay for white people to throw the word around as long as they don't mean to be nasty about it. especially when you're "throwing it around" in two separate takes as part of your job.

that sounds about right, mh

the BBC is held to a higher standard because everyone pays for it, so we all feel like stakeholders in a way. the question of whether or not somebody should be fired from, say, channel 5, doesn't have the same currency or bite

but hey, it happens, guys, am i right? sometimes the n-word just slips out - WHOOPS! now here come the haters

there is no accident, there is no lack of intention to offend, all there is, is a bloke who makes a living from baiting anybody who isn't a white middle class conservative male misjudging the line and finally finding he can't bully his way out of the overdue reprimand

the BBC is held to a higher standard because everyone pays for it, so we all feel like stakeholders in a way.

I see this point. Ok call for him to be removed from BBC.

sometimes the n-word just slips out

when you're 60 yrs old and reciting a nursery rhyme that had the n-word in it. Quit trying to take the context out of what he did just to make it look worse.

yes it's one of the hazards of being a white man, the n-word could just pop out at any time, at the most inconvenient moment. even when you're concentrating super-hard on not saying it

and i can't help but think that anybody who didn't believe this shit wd've quietly dropped it from their act years ago - he could still've played the challenging-opinions-about-cars-and-politics bro without any damage to his image at all

incidentally, like everybody else who grew up using that iteration of the rhyme, i haven't accidentally let it slip out since i grew the fuck up

Quit taking the context out of it (old white dude who has a history of saying racist things, invoking stereotypes) to make him look _better_

there is no accident, there is no lack of intention to offend,

multiple takes, he realized he accidentally mumbled it in one, and asked for a different take to be used, this one with a totally different word used in n-word's place? how is that not "lack of intention to offend"?

when you're 60 yrs old and reciting a nursery rhyme that had the n-word in it

for the umpteenth time, this was being filmed AS A BIT. the ENTIRE JOKE was "ohmygod he's gonna say the n-word what a bad boy". he didn't get recorded by an undercover journo during a game of hide and seek that got heated ffs

he recorded it twice with the n-word mumbled, realised he wdn't get away with it, recorded it a third time with a mumble intended to not sound like the word - altho the point of the joke was the same

ahhhhh Dainger are you saying it's only a problem if clarkson was thinking "i hope this hurts someone's feelings" when filming the bit?

I don't care about making him look better. Just think this particular thing isn't terribly egregious on its own. If you want to tie it into his past, go ahead. Outsider looking in, it seems silly for this to get as much outrage as it has. Public funding of BBC and his past...yes I can see why people who already disliked him would try to snatch upon this as the final straw.

"BBC broadcaster thinks better of using the n-word on his TV show after trying it out a couple of times" - maybe you're right, that doesn't really sound like a bad thing

Granny, have you considered using arguments that a single person on the thread might find convincing, or addressing anyone's actual points?

As an outsider, you are basically saying you have no idea what this guy's pattern of behavior is, but you're willing to defend him all over the place.

like, give us a single point here as to your interest in the matter other than trolling, because you're not having a reasonable conversation

It's not reasonable because you have all made up your minds and anyone who disagrees with you is a racist or racist apologist. Long live ILX "debate".