Is racism a particularly large problem in Australia?

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I thought that this discussion (excerpted from the Sydney Morning Herald) was interesting for the way it foregrounds tribalism and masulinity as key causes, over racism per se:

Clifton Evers, a lecturer in gender studies at the University of Sydney, said the dominant male ego was a highly regarded part of surf culture and the Cronulla riot was an attempt to maintain ownership of the beach.

He dismissed the attack on the North Cronulla lifesavers as the trigger for Sunday's melee, saying the surf culture and the lifesaving movement were often at loggerheads over the use of waves and there was little love lost between both groups.

"The SLSC movement and surfing is a male world grown out of control. Listening to the guys' chants on Sunday, it's clear the protest was an inversion of victimhood," Dr Evers said.

"They kept saying: 'Our world is under attack, our woman need defending, our way of life was under attack.' Of course, nothing of the sort was going on. The whole thing is an attempt to shore up the privileges they enjoy as gatekeepers of the beach culture."

Dr Evers thought that what perhaps the riot displayed most was the power of mateship.

"Most of those guys wouldn't have had a clue. They could be wound up by all the fascist groups in the world and wouldn't know. But they could have been there because one of their mates reckons the outsiders [needed] to be taught a lesson," he said. "And, you know, all those young blokes driving to the beach suburbs in their cars from the western suburbs to fight are being driven by the same thing - mateship.

"You hate who your mates hate. In Australia, mateship is stronger than racism."

paulhw (paulhw), Monday, 12 December 2005 21:58 (eighteen years ago) link

haha, "white" australians in blaming italian immigrants for racism shocka.

Please explain this because a) it makes no farking sense, b) I dont think anyone's blamed Italian immigrants for anything, c) you are an american, you have no idea wtf is behind all this.

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 12 December 2005 22:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Paul, thats an interesting article and yeah, I think it gets closer to the root cause of all this than anything else we've looked at.

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 12 December 2005 22:42 (eighteen years ago) link

(also, I retract "you are an american" and replace with "you're not australian", which is fairer)

Trayce (trayce), Monday, 12 December 2005 22:46 (eighteen years ago) link

I think this article also goes a VERY LONG way to explaining this specific incident:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/alan-jones-i-led-this-charge/2005/12/12/1134236003153.html

Alan Jones is a right wing talkback shockjock DJ. He is foul and unrepentingly stupid. And he said this, among other things:

When John called on Tuesday to bluntly recommend vigilante action — "If the police can't do the job, the next tier is us" — Jones did not dissent. "Yeh. Good on you, John." And when he then offered a maxim his father had picked up during the war — "Shoot one, the rest will run" — the broadcaster roared with laughter. "No, you don't play Queensberry's rules. Good on you, John."

It was horrible stuff, larded with self-congratulation. And pity poor Berta — "not of a Middle Eastern family" — who tried to argue there were two sides to this story. When she reported hearing "really derogatory remarks" aimed at Middle Eastern people on Cronulla beach, Jones cut her off: "Let's not get too carried away, Berta. We don't have Anglo-Saxon kids out there raping women in western Sydney."

*boggle*. Yeah ok. White kids don't rape, in Sydney?

Hey sedition law, cop this: KILL ALAN JONES NOW. PLEASE.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 01:00 (eighteen years ago) link

About ten years ago, I had a job doing phone surveys for Roy Morgan in Sydney for a few months... one of the questions I asked was about the Mabo legislation. I still don't know what it is, but the people of Queensland had VERY pointed things to say about it, and weren't worried if I thought them racist at all... that's the closest I got to it, by and large I found Sydney quite integrated and largely harmonious.

andy --, Tuesday, 13 December 2005 01:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I've experienced the "surf culture" growing up.

My opinion? The sooner it's destroyed, the better.

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Tuesday, 13 December 2005 01:29 (eighteen years ago) link

"I tell you who we want to encourage, Charlie, all the Pacific Island people because, you want to know something, they don't take any nonsense. They are proud to be here — all those Samoans and Fijians. They love being here. And they say, 'Uh huh, uh huh. You step out of line, look out.' And, of course, cowards always run, don't they?"

And that's my earlier question answered as well.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 01:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Jones on Saamoans = "those guys are huge bastards and would beat shit out of me if I dont step off". Probably. Hes a cowardly fat white middle aged cock.

I am too wound up over this to be logical about it at all (Ive just caused a huge fight on my LJ because everyone misread something I said).

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Whoa, Trayce. Take that back about Alan Jones.

He has *no* cock. Therefore, he cannot be a cock. He is cockless. COCKLESS.

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:07 (eighteen years ago) link

You are right! I stand corrected =)

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:21 (eighteen years ago) link

To outsiders Alan Jones seems just so grotesque it's hard to see where he could get a serious audience.

Melbourne has that other loathsome toad Andrew Bolt spouting the same bile in the Herald Sun, and if nothing like Cronulla happens in Springvale or somewhere like that, all it might mean is radio has more clout than the print media.

Fred Nerk (Fred Nerk), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Mmm *nods*. Which leads me to a point I've been pondering. Why *does* this always happen in Sydney? Is it the spread of the demographic or something? Is it the culture up there? (NSW has always seemed a lot more AUSSIE OY OY than Vic has).

I'm not sure anything of this scale's ever happened in Melb. I'm not boasting or anything; I know places like Frankston and Dandenong and Broady are bad. But for eg: those Salt nightclub asian gang related stabbings a few years ago. That didnt result in a bunch of rabid chapel st yuppies "relcaiming our clubs".

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:47 (eighteen years ago) link

As I recall they were a bit more 'Asian' v 'Asian', ie not worth the general populace getting too panicky over. Also, King Street on Sat night is a place nobody with half an un-booze-addled brain cell would stray near, regardless of what color they were. With nightclubs it's all part of the territory, unlike maybe Brighton or Sandy Beach.

Fred Nerk (Fred Nerk), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 02:57 (eighteen years ago) link

That's because Melbourne is full of REDS, right? ((TM) Andrew Bolt)

I think it's a combination of intelligence, demographic spread, geography, and the footy.

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Tuesday, 13 December 2005 03:00 (eighteen years ago) link

AFL/Union = university hoitytoits
NRL/league = no-neck yobs

THUS I HAVE SOLVED THE PROBLEM ONCE AND FOR ALL

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 03:06 (eighteen years ago) link

"if kurt cobain played football, he wouldn't have killed himself" - damon albarn, 1995

"if sydneysiders played australian rules football, they wouldn't be racist dickheads" - esteban buttezz, 2005

turboalbino (haitch), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 03:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, it's true!

Just look at the games. Australian Rules is about artistic expression, covering great distances and using your head. Rugby League is just an excuse for no-necks to beat each other up.

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Tuesday, 13 December 2005 03:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Like they say.

Rugby League. Too stupid to be sport, too ugly to be porn.

edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 03:13 (eighteen years ago) link

I used to be a Parra supporter as a kid *shamed face*

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 03:15 (eighteen years ago) link

"Oh look it isn't *US* who are racists, its those nasty WOPS!@@""

PS - choke on a dick.

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:27 (eighteen years ago) link

dude when you get the first clue about anything to do with this country you're welcome to discuss it.. until then butt the fuck out

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:28 (eighteen years ago) link

I transposed a couple of key words at the end there and was amused.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Jon have you even been reading the thread properly? This was all started by shockjock DJs and white/skinhead surfer dicks. We're angry at white aussies for bashing up middle eastern people (who have also caused anger for bashing people in gangs on the same beach in recent weeks.)

Oh but wait, you'd have to have been PAYING ANY ATTENTION TO THE THREAD to comprend this ahhh never mind why do I bother.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:35 (eighteen years ago) link

dude when you get the first clue about anything to do with this country you're welcome to discuss it.. until then butt the fuck out

-- jim p. irrelevant (electricsoun...) (webmail), December 13th, 2005 12:28 AM. (electricsound) (later) (link)

Go back to England to be with the rest of "your kind".

Trayce, eat living fuck you racist bitch. Fuck you!

Here, you'll have greek/italian 2nd generation young guys being the offenders a lot of the time - starting shit, abusing asians, etc. It seems to flux.

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:37 (eighteen years ago) link

England? Dude I'm half french, get laid.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Aw, Jon is mad at me cos I defriended him on LJ! Thats so cute.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:43 (eighteen years ago) link

the comedy trife act doesn't suit you jon

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh so this is what diversity means in Commonwealth nations!

xpost, ha I didn't even notice. Was it for this or the MSN zings?

GET EQUIPPED WITH HAHA MULTICULTURALISM (ex machina), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah I'm assuming Jon's trying to be "funney".

Jon I defriended you ages ago, I got bored with the joeks is all.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:45 (eighteen years ago) link

So like, picking on me and no one else on this thread is obvious, boring and wrong. Try sticking tampons to Kates head or whatever it is you do of an evening for amusement.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:49 (eighteen years ago) link

LIVEJOURNAL DRAMA is much more devastating than Race Riots, folks.

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Ah never mind! Lets go back to dumping on the footy!

Wheres Freddy Negro when we need him.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:53 (eighteen years ago) link

drinkin beer at the greyhound

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Why do you hate italians, Trayce? Stop trying to dodge these accusations.

http://www.jasoncross.com/images/photo/mario_lou.jpg

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:55 (eighteen years ago) link

GET WITH IT JON SHE HATES GREEKS TOO.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Heh. Anyone who knew me would know I love Italians. Mmm hot italian boys.

(my comment was true! My school was 90% greek/croatian/italian and they used to beat shit out of the aboriginal and asian kids. So suck on that wankface!)

xpost ahahaha stence =)

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Who doesn't hate the Greeks? They invented homosexuality, amirite?

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:58 (eighteen years ago) link

actually i think that's their second best invention, after souvlaki

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 05:59 (eighteen years ago) link

the olympics was their worst

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 06:00 (eighteen years ago) link

no, YANNI.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 06:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Actually the worst thing they invented were BURNOUTS AND SPINNIN DA WHEELS, MATE.

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Tuesday, 13 December 2005 06:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Trayce omg! I was once mugged by a black guy!@@

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 06:03 (eighteen years ago) link

did he steal your jeans?

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 06:03 (eighteen years ago) link

He stole my Rasta shoes because all blakc people are ganja smoking thieves -- just like all italians are muslim-stomping plumbers

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 06:05 (eighteen years ago) link

mario bros are plumbers?

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 06:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Ya forget that the blacks are petrol-sniffers too, maaaate.

ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Tuesday, 13 December 2005 06:06 (eighteen years ago) link

oh noes ganja smokers

jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 06:07 (eighteen years ago) link

jim have you never played mario bros???

turboalbino (haitch), Tuesday, 13 December 2005 06:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Also fuck turnbull forever for so many reasons but especially the way he's going to claim marriage equality as his great legacy. He did everything he could to slow down that change and protect himself, and put hundreds of thousands of people (me included) through hell in the process.

monotony, Friday, 24 August 2018 04:23 (five years ago) link


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