Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

in general it's a problem when people make political hay out of isolated events

the only non-isolated (i.e. fairly common) aspect of this shooting is that it's a shooting. which happens far too often in this country.

why can't one of these spree shootings be at an NRA meeting

Or a gun fair, where everyone's already armed, so they cant use that "if only they'd all been armed already this wouldnt have happeneed!!!>11!!" argt.

yes, esp. since the whole culture seems to have produced very very few killers of this nature. that's something people who write hasty think-pieces often forget.

― display name changed. (amateurist), Wednesday, June 4, 2014 4:51 PM (6 hours ago)

also, esp, since misogyny and misogynist violence/murder are hardly some novel product of the modern era.

Something going down in Canada now, 24 yo man in camo has killed 3 Mounties and is still on the loose.

http://www.baytoday.ca/content/news/national/details.asp?c=62755

why can't one of these spree shootings be at an NRA meeting

Or a gun fair, where everyone's already armed, so they cant use that "if only they'd all been armed already this wouldnt have happeneed!!!>11!!" argt.

― the Bronski Review (Trayce), Thursday, June 5, 2014 5:26 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it'd be dismissed as "false flag" by the crazies as soon as it happened.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27709530

in general it's a problem when people make political hay out of isolated events

the only non-isolated (i.e. fairly common) aspect of this shooting is that it's a shooting. which happens far too often in this country.

― display name changed. (amateurist), Wednesday, June 4, 2014 11:52 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Seriously, stop talking.

we have a difficult time thinking about how culture dictates behavior on the individual level because we dont have a clear grasp of causal relationships that are neither necessary nor arbitrary.

that's what's so clever about the NRA/right-wing fixation on "mental illness," which amounts to "this is an issue with this particular individual and doesn't speak to societal problems." then of course they talk out the other side of their mouth and affirm a crisis of masculinity or the like.

24-year-old Megadeth-quoting Rambo wannabe on the run in New Brunswick after shooting 5 cops, 3 dead.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/06/05/justin_bourque_wanted_to_go_out_with_a_bang_report.html

why can't one of these spree shootings be at an NRA meeting

Or a gun fair, where everyone's already armed, so they cant use that "if only they'd all been armed already this wouldnt have happeneed!!!>11!!" argt.

― the Bronski Review (Trayce), Thursday, 5 June 2014 04:26 (11 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oops sorry was going to say 2 Fort Hood shootings kind of did that already, didn't seem to slow down the "if everybody was armed" argument

I would be bummed if it happened at a gun fair, loads of children/families there. but a meeting of NRA brass is kind of guaranteed to be 100% assholes

xp

im not sure this is a productive discussion

Most gun shows, quite reasonably, require you to unload any weapons on entering. Why, it's almost as if they know that a roomful of testosterone addicts with loaded guns is likely to lead to trouble!

See, e.g. http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/11/1435631/gun-show-safety/

and

http://www.crossroadsgunshows.com/faqs.php

xpost
yeah that was kinda my point
I'm cool with no mass shootings, even ones in ironic locations

The dumb accidental shootings that happen at those things are bad enough

oh was there a productive conversation discussion happening here, I hadn't noticed

maybe fantasize about mass murder in another thread?

i thought it was okay for people to die if they like guns

this is all just idle chatter, but let's not pretend that any of us are gonna cry any tears over the grave of Wayne LaPierre. maybe milo z.

ban megadeth

shakey, go fuck yourself.

i know being callous about the dead is kind of your thing but your idle chatter in this instance is pretty fucking abhorrent

what dead am I being callous about

think you are misreading me

fwiw I do think it's sad that this recent thread revive has been dominated by exactly the kind of debate the NRA would like everyone to be having, i.e., in depth discussions of mental health issues/culture of violence etc instead of the actually centrally important issue, which is gun control. and then I make some offhand comments about how it would be maybe preferable if Wayne LaPierre and co., who I basically consider mass murderers at this point, were victims of their own policies and I'm the bad guy. ok.

this guy has a point guys

makes you think

I'm expecting a lot of sneering from NRA type about "See Canada has gun control and mass killings too!" coming up now

killer's FB page is full of gun nut shit btw: https://www.facebook.com/justin.bourque.5682?fref=ts

in general it's a problem when people make political hay out of isolated events

the only non-isolated (i.e. fairly common) aspect of this shooting is that it's a shooting. which happens far too often in this country.

― display name changed. (amateurist), Wednesday, June 4, 2014 11:52 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Seriously, stop talking.

― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Thursday, June 5, 2014 7:42 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if you have a problem with what i wrote, perhaps you can explain. i engaged in deliberate overstatement here, obvious the shooters' misogyny connects to things in our culture as we've discussed at great length ITT. but i am more than a little skeptical that this is really //about// misogyny in the same way it is //about// easy access to guns. people kill people with guns, for many reasons (and non-reasons) every day in this country. men inflamed by misogynist and other vile thoughts kill random men and women... not very often. if all it takes to create an elliot rodger is the existence of an aggressively misogynist subculture, then why is this sort of thing so damn rare?

It's almost as if violence against women was a global phenomenon that happens every single day of the year

men inflamed by misogynist and other vile thoughts kill random men and women...

So it's only misogyny if the victims are random and it's not if the perpetrator knew the victims beforehand, I get it now

yeah, that was a mistake, phrasing it that way.

i'm arguing on the side of posters i think are dumb, and i'm being argued against by posters i think are smart, so i'm willing to accept that i'm not looking at this the right way.

i wish people would actually argue against me (as 龜 has) rather than just be snarky (like orbit).

this is ilx 2014

ilx has always been like this

just different trolls once upon a time

The snark was because these points have been well, well covered in the preceding posts

If you see this incident as entirely separate and isolated from the everyday strains of misogyny that permeate our culture rather than simply being the ruthlessly logical and fatal endpoint of said misogyny, then I think maybe you should reevaluate your take on the situation?

I disagree but there's prob a better thread for it xp

i am reevaluating my take, as mentioned just above.

that said, i don't see it as a "logical" endpoint of anything. if it were a "logical endpoint" of something that "permeate(s) our culture" then we'd expect to see it all the time, every day.

xpost

"if you disagree perhaps you should agree" is idk but yknow?

if humans are evolved from monkeys why are there monkeys?????????

I guess you see incidents of domestic abuse and murder as being motivated by something else entirely then? xp

oh it's that engrossing time of the day when amaterist chain-posts and darraghmac speaks truth to power. *rests chin on hands*

if humans are evolved from monkeys why are there monkeys?????????

― write 500 words of song (sleepingbag), Thursday, June 5, 2014 4:52 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

b/c evolution is not "logical"?

anyway since this has been covered before, and i'm not even sure of my own position on this, i'll clear out, so mattresslessness can relax his hands (and chin)

hi matt.

Sorry, I was off having a life for a few hours there.

if all it takes to create an elliot rodger is the existence of an aggressively misogynist subculture, then why is this sort of thing so damn rare?

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN IS NOT RARE. AT ALL. Intimate partner violence is horrifyingly common--ONE THIRD of all murdered women are killed not during a mugging or robbery, but by their spouse or lover. One third, and that's a low estimate. The WHO says that globally it's 38%. Street harassment, a form of violence against women's right to be fully functional people in public space, is everywhere, all the time (although men often don't see or notice it and are usually shocked when they find out how aggressive, purposeful, and overwhelmingly common it is).

Women who express opinions on the internet frequently receive death, rape, and mutilation threats that can include their home addresses and details about their lives that indicate the offender is basically stalking them. Police routinely do nothing about these, shrugging them off until someone is actually attacked, raped, or dead.

These points have been made again and again, stop acting like it's some kind of drive-by zing to not take your refusal to acknowledge them seriously.

you are talking past each other. it's comparatively rare for a guy to go on a shooting spree motivated by his hatred of women. it's more common in America because GUNS. If you wanna argue which results in more deaths of women, misogyny or guns (and even positing this dichotomy at all is stupid btw), I'm still gonna go with GUNS.