well this should be fun
― Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Friday, 18 July 2014 20:46 (ten years ago) link
i hate these word crimes
― guwop (crüt), Friday, 18 July 2014 20:48 (ten years ago) link
i "regret" "posting" in this "thread"
― mattresslessness, Friday, 18 July 2014 20:48 (ten years ago) link
Ok I think I put this is the wrong thread then. Sorry for derailing.
― it's not a fedora, it's a trill bae (m bison), Friday, 18 July 2014 20:49 (ten years ago) link
Weird Al probably shouldn't use the word "spastic" as a pejorative but certain ILXors complaining that Weird Al is an unbearable pedantic snob who is overly critical of the intelligence of others is pretty goddamn rich
― guwop (crüt), Friday, 18 July 2014 20:53 (ten years ago) link
As long as they don't characterise you as something less than human then sure who cares about words?
― xelab, Friday, 18 July 2014 20:54 (ten years ago) link
I think it's important to note that unlike the majority of racial slurs or stereotypes the term spastic does not have it's origins in denigrating a particular group of people. Things like the n-word or black peter were specifically developed as cultural tools of oppression.
As Plasmon points out on the Weird Al thread "spastic" is a medical term for a particular set of physical behaviors (NOT a person or group of people with a particular medical condition), but it wasn't until people in the UK started using it as a term of abuse for people with CP that it assumed its negative connotation there. But there was no corresponding pattern of use in the U.S., where the term came to be applied to a more general set of behaviors largely divorced from its medical context. That the UK now wants to insist that the word is *inherently* offensive - whenever and wherever it is used, even outside the cultural context of the UK - because of their own historical discriminatory appropriation of the term is some fucking bullshit. That's like if one country decided to use the word "orange" as a slur for some minority and then insisted that everywhere and anywhere all uses of the word to refer to the fruit or the color were actually derogatory slurs. it is nonsensical.
xxp
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 July 2014 20:56 (ten years ago) link
lol
― caek, Friday, 18 July 2014 20:57 (ten years ago) link
I dunno why this bothers me so, the misdirected anger I suppose, Weird Al is hardly Tosh or Michael Richards or whoever
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 July 2014 20:58 (ten years ago) link
Not reading that til you post a youtube of you eating your hat xp
― 龜, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:00 (ten years ago) link
are you saying you're american just so I would eat my hat or
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:01 (ten years ago) link
What nationality do you think I am?
― 龜, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:02 (ten years ago) link
I have no idea
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:05 (ten years ago) link
I think it's important to note that unlike the majority of racial slurs or stereotypes the term spastic does not have it's origins in denigrating a particular group of people.
neither does "gay"
― caek, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:06 (ten years ago) link
If it's not considered offensive in the US why did Tiger Woods catch so much heat for saying it?
― Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Friday, 18 July 2014 21:07 (ten years ago) link
he caught heat in the UK.
― guwop (crüt), Friday, 18 July 2014 21:09 (ten years ago) link
As Plasmon points out on the Weird Al thread "spastic" is a medical term for a particular set of physical behaviors (NOT a person or group of people with a particular medical condition)
this is such a weird distinction imo. "In America it's an insult based on symptoms of medical conditions NOT a medical condition!"
Like, ok, the severity of connotations are different in the UK & US. However, it's not really yours or anybody's place to say whether one is allowed to not enjoy the use of a term used derogatively.
― da croupier, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:11 (ten years ago) link
yeah, and whether that was offensive or not (for quite a long time) depended entirely on the context in which it was used and by whom
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:11 (ten years ago) link
croup in America it's divorced from it's medical context, as I pointed out in the next sentence.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:12 (ten years ago) link
As an American who was called a spaz plenty of times growing up I think it kind of is my place to say
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:13 (ten years ago) link
The US too, but mostly online. US newspapers appear to have edited / censored the quote when reporting it. Xps
― Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Friday, 18 July 2014 21:14 (ten years ago) link
is it so hard to just respect when people are bummed out by the use of the word without breaking into hysterics about how that word has LITERALLY NO UNPLEASANT CONNOTATIONS ON THIS SIDE OF THE GLOBE etc etc. people's perceptions on words change, deal with it
― da croupier, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:16 (ten years ago) link
People have often used the same medical argument to defend using "retard" and it stinks just as much of purest apologist bullshit.
― xelab, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:18 (ten years ago) link
is it so hard to just respect when people are bummed out by the use of the word
when lex uses it as a misshapen club to beat Weird Al with yeah it is kind of hard
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:19 (ten years ago) link
Lex otm imo
― xelab, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:20 (ten years ago) link
you should try harder xp
― caek, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:21 (ten years ago) link
lex's selective use of moral outrage is truly a wonder to behold, enjoy your company
xp
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:21 (ten years ago) link
first lex came for weird al, and i did nothing
― da croupier, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:21 (ten years ago) link
I could list a whole shitload of odious people lex is totally cool with, but Weird Al is a bridge too far for him because a) he is a comedian and b) he used the term "spastic"; priorities seem a little misaligned to me but what do I know
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:24 (ten years ago) link
Shakes I'm American, in case you had a tough time figuring it out
I dunno man, do you really need a reason other than that you're here part of a community where there are people who don't like that word being used
And that it would be cool and nice to acknowledge that
Do you really need more of a reason
I don't understand why you feel so upset about this
Here's a tip
When you step away from the computer
You can go to your basement
Or your stoop
You can shout out this word for everybody to hear
You can shout out other words too that it makes you feel good and righteous to say
Then you can come back and turn on the computer again
Hopefully you will feel more calm and at peace
Namaste
― 龜, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:25 (ten years ago) link
missed that "spastic" didn't come up until lex, and that la lechera's (totally valid! if irrespective of weird's intent) bum-out that "word crimes" was too mean to be used in an educational context hinged around "mouth-breathers."
though i understand why lex drives people to mutually assured clusterfuck, i still think it's just poor form to go around speaking for your continent about what derogatorily-intended terms are cool or not cool
― da croupier, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:28 (ten years ago) link
I'm at peace dude don't worry
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:29 (ten years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Friday, July 18, 2014 3:21 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
says the guy who finds queen fascist and morrissey idiosyncratic
― mattresslessness, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:31 (ten years ago) link
touche
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:33 (ten years ago) link
'Spastic' was an acceptable term in the UK when this charity was founded in 1951:
http://mediastore2.magnumphotos.com/CoreXDoc/MAG/Media/TR2/8/8/c/5/LON97201.jpg
It re-branded as SCOPE in 1994 because, over time, 'spastic' became offensive to the people it was used to describe. When I moved to London a few years before that, I was flabbergasted to see this word in use because in America it is a mild playground insult, albeit one you'd never use in the presence of someone with cerebral palsy or similar. In the UK, it is too, but kids adapted after the name change and have called each other 'scopers' in place of the former ever since.
― leave the web alone boys (suzy), Friday, 18 July 2014 21:41 (ten years ago) link
Not very hilarious Suzy, desperate fucking lolz.
― xelab, Friday, 18 July 2014 21:45 (ten years ago) link
fwiw I think the ubiquity of 'scoper' as replacement playground slang might have got a wee bit exaggerated anecdotally. never heard it when I was growing up
― Kiss Screaming Seagull Her Seagull Her (DJ Mencap), Friday, 18 July 2014 21:54 (ten years ago) link
Excuse me, xelab, could you refine your communication skills ever so slightly to clear up what you're talking about? No 'hilarity' intended whatsofuckingever by my post.
― leave the web alone boys (suzy), Friday, 18 July 2014 21:58 (ten years ago) link
Sorry for being rude but people need to catch up on the fact that disablist slurs are no different to racist slurs, it needs to be wiped out and it isn't something warranting a bit of a laugh. That Tyranny of Humour thread is definitely the place for this.
― xelab, Friday, 18 July 2014 22:03 (ten years ago) link
yeah i don't think most ppl in the us would think of 'spastic' as a term for ppl w/ cerebral palsy but i also don't doubt that someone w/ cp has been described as 'spastic' in the us (tbf ppl w/ cp can be pretty fucking spastic). acting offended at the idea of not using anymore or someone else's taking offense is a bit 'why?' but acting offended at someone using this term when they clearly didn't mean this fairly obscure meaning and pretending that in fact they meant precisely that is disingenuous. still waiting to find out what 'mouth breather' means in the uk. what strikes me as likely now w/ increased culture flow between the us and the uk thanks to the internet is that you might (and probably already do in more cosmopolitan contexts) have more americans shunning the term but i am guessing you will have many more americans now using it specifically to refer to ppl w/ cp a la mental and ginger before it. "words are fluid".
― balls, Friday, 18 July 2014 22:06 (ten years ago) link
skeptical that slurs are ever wiped out, would guess they're merely replaced, w/ the replacement having the advantage of not having a preexisting taboo to deter it and novelty to increase its spread, similar to a virus, adaptation, etc. information generally doesn't behave the way you're describing xelab.
― balls, Friday, 18 July 2014 22:11 (ten years ago) link
i'm more of a skeptic of 'the power of language' of late though. ten years ago i might've said different and i can see the argument for attacking behavioral symptoms instead of behavioral causes.
― balls, Friday, 18 July 2014 22:14 (ten years ago) link
Some columnist in a US local paper used 'spastic' and I was amazed. There are plenty of things that the US gets enraged about that don't have an equivalent background here yet I'd like to think we have the decency to take that on board and stop using it. One example from ILX: "uppity" having racial connotations. Never knew that, but no longer say it.
― kinder, Friday, 18 July 2014 22:16 (ten years ago) link
Sorry Suzy I have just read your post again minus red mist. My first read was you were trying to be funny and ironic. I got it wrong.
― xelab, Friday, 18 July 2014 22:17 (ten years ago) link
official/medical terminology seems like it has to run to escape the pall of insult on some kind of generational cycle, esp with mental illness and disability - "idiot" and "moron" were both doctorspeak of gilded age vintage, right?
interestingly it seems like the same thing occurs in language use for all "managed" populations: my mom remembers working in geriatrics in the 70s when patients were called "inmates" (?!) and the shift to referring to them as "residents" esp in long-term care situations. i wonder if there was a concomitant shift in corrections (lol now there's a euphemism for you) from the term "prisoner" to "inmate"
― goole, Friday, 18 July 2014 22:17 (ten years ago) link
not to mention my favorite one: the humanist innovation of the "penitentiary" (a place where you learn to be sorry) rather than a mere prison where we lock you up for punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_State_Penitentiary
― goole, Friday, 18 July 2014 22:20 (ten years ago) link
Sanitarium is another good one
― 龜, Friday, 18 July 2014 22:21 (ten years ago) link
my boss sends her kids to a fancy UWS school and got a letter home about her daughter using the "s-word" (stupid)
― caek, Friday, 18 July 2014 22:21 (ten years ago) link
Don't know if this helps or not, but just for another view, in Denmark, 'spastic' (spastiker) is the farthest thing from a slur, it's just what it's called. The society for people with CP is called 'spastikerforeningen'. However, growing up, 'spasser' (spaz) was one of the most used playground taunts I knew. In von Trier's film The Idiots, they pretend to be spaz's and to 'spaz' out. Though they act more like people with Down's Syndrome. Which, growing up, was still always called 'mongolism', so we probably weren't as sensitive as we should be...
― Frederik B, Friday, 18 July 2014 22:27 (ten years ago) link
The ESP is a pretty cool place - only a few blocks away from my high school, but didn't actually get around to visiting it until a few years ago xp
― 龜, Friday, 18 July 2014 22:32 (ten years ago) link