Rolling MENA 2014 (Middle East)

Thanks for that, will read it later!

Sorry for lashing out Mordy I didn't mean to get personal. I'm reading multiple reports alongside this and getting annoyed with the language and tone of them. Like 35 Palestinians died this morning and the headlines are all about this one guy.

― a curious shade of pale (onimo), Friday, August 1, 2014 12:34 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

reminds me of this article I read in the LAtimes a couple days ago about the tunnels.

OMG TUNNELS SO SCARY POOR ISRAEL

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-israel-tunnels-20140731-story.html#navtype=outfit

I definitely wouldn't be scared if Hamas built tunnels that reached my daughter's school.

they don't seem to have accomplished much with these tunnels

I mean apart from whatever stuff they've been smuggling *into* Gaza

from what i understand they use the Egypt tunnels to smuggle stuff into Gaza. they were saving the israel tunnels for a good opportunity (rumors i've read was rosh hashana this year, though i don't think that's been verified or anything)

BREAKING: Obama calls for unconditional release of Israeli soldier if Hamas wants to resolve conflict.

Because one captured soldier is worth so much more than 1400 dead civilians, right?

it is to the people who have more planes and bombs

There is every reason to destroy those tunnels, but I admit I'm a tad suspicious of recent "rumors" they were going to be used for some 9/11 style sneak attack. Rumors based on what? Their existence? The very possibility?

supposedly based on interviews w/ captured hamas operatives (iirc from the 150 that surrendered)

http://www.jta.org/2014/07/28/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/report-hamas-planned-rosh-hashanah-attack-through-gaza-tunnels

Obama says it's "heartbreaking to see what's going on in Gaza". Spoken like a true innocent bystander amirite?

http://i.imgur.com/3N8nqnJ.jpg

Is there record the tunnels have been used in kidnappings or assaults on civilians? That seems to be the spectre Bibi keeps raising--"they exist to destroy our civilians, kill our children"--but I've only heard of their use in attacks on the military.

Obviously the intifada haunts the thinking here--"if they suicide bombed then," etc--but has anything like this happened in the last decade?

There have definitely been attacks on Israeli civilians in the past decade, putting aside rockets.

Mordy has anyone verified the Rosh Hashanah plot story? It doesn't seem beyond plausible to me, but so far the only papers reporting it all trace back to that Maariv (the NYPost of Israel, if not worse) report based on an unnamed Israeli military source. So I am hesitant to take it at face value. I mean, the tunnels are there for attacks, no doubt -- it's not like they're smuggling goods into/out of Israel.

Yeah, that's what I was saying. Very sketch story. I think skepticism is advisable.

am I wrong in thinking that the Hamas leadership is about as in control as Boehner is of the House GOP

it's hard to run things from a villa in qatar

Apology from genocide guy: http://5tjt.com/apology-from-yochanan-gordon/

"hey everyone, it's me, genocide guy! just wanted to say 'soz' for the upset"

"can't we all just get along (after I called for your extermination)"

lol gubke

"can't we all just get along (after I called for your extermination)"

― Οὖτις, Friday, August 1, 2014 4:53 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

to be fair, this is a little bit how Hamas sounds at times with its charter, and they don't even say "sorry" they just say "oh that's a historic document" or something.

+ without the "can't we all just get along" part

guys guys there are plenty of historical calls for extermination to go around

some quality rationalizing going on here:

http://maxblumenthal.com/2011/07/inside-torat-hamelech-the-jewish-extremist-terror-tract/

Jewish Hamas, basically

I've been away from ilx for quite some time and missed out on stuff. Outic, you are the artist formerly known as Shaky Mo, no? Are you Jewish? I was wondering if you have ever been called a 'self hating Jew', or got flack or have been harassed because of your viewpoint?

(apologies if that's too personal or brash a question, feel free to answer or not)

I was wondering if you have ever been called a 'self hating Jew'

only by Mordy lol

I dunno who's gonna harass me I don't really hang around a lot of rightwing Jews

Some rando called my wife a self-hating Jew on the internet. It's not something I hear often though.

Haha omg

Got called an anti-Semite for the first time yesterday, in an awkward pub discussion with friends of friends I didn't know. I can shrug it off, it is too stupid. But my Jewish gf/date (it's undecided) again got called a self-hating Jew, for the umpteenth time. In her face. Only because she will not accept 1600 deaths, that this is not the way forward for anyone, that Israel is only perpetuating the conflict this way. She knows better but it affects her nonetheless. Mostly because people expect her to be 'pro-Israel' by default, because she's Jewish.

xxp

All you can do is let that shit roll off. People are mad right now cuz they feel collectively threatened and on the defensive.

Yeah, you are right. I have had a quick learning experience on how gf is in a double bind though. How everyone expects 'something' from her, or perhaps something more than is on the news or on the internet. Only because she is Jewish. She's got friends and family in Israel she is deeply concerned about, but also condemns the violence Israel deploys, the actions that nation is undertaking. As a result she is getting flack from both ends of the spectrum. Which only shows how hard it is for other people to accept not all (Jewish) people are either Zionist or pro-Hamas.

What really depresses me is the thought - or knowledge - that this has been going on for generations now. Seeds to take the extreme side are firmly planted.

on 'liberal zionists' getting shit from all sides: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/aug/14/liberal-zionists/?insrc=hpma

Yes, that is the conundrum of being a Jew with a familial or emotional connection to Israel who is neither "with us" nor "with the terrorists." Some of the lefty people I follow/am friends with come dangerously close to questioning loyalty. I had a good friend ask me, in context of the question, if I was going to "raise my daughter as an American" -- I understand what he meant given that I'm married to an Israeli but it still hurt to be asked. My daughter IS an American.

in context of the conflict, I mean

I'm raising my children as Earthicans

Yeah that is off limits imho, to ask that Hurting. It also mixes up Israel and being Jewish, throwing that on the same pile.

Thanks for the link Mookie! Will read it tomorrow!

So it seems things got even worse, now.

Per the Guardian:

Meanwhile, the Israel Defence Forces told 70,000 residents of Beit Lahiya that they could return to their homes from 2pm on Saturday, while warning them of possible booby traps laid by Hamas. "The residents are advised to beware of explosive devices Hamas has spread across the area," the IDF said in a statement. "The army has dealt with tunnels and launching pads and has cleaned the area, apart from booby traps," a source said.

"Mr. Netanyahu thanked the United States, which along with the United Nations appeared to support Israel’s position that Hamas’s actions violated the cease-fire, and he asked for international help to rebuild Gaza on the condition of its “demilitarization.” Israel appears to be hoping that with the support of Egypt and the international community, Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas can control Gaza through a unity government agreed upon with Hamas and take responsibility for security there and for the Rafah crossing to Egypt.

this is surely best case scenario as far as i can see it - put PA in charge, ease the blockade

Yeah probably

So the kidnapped soldier wasn't kidnapped, but killed in action.

And again:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/israel-air-strike-un-school-gaza-rafah

http://i.imgur.com/kvsmaxX.jpg

Oh good a pro-Israel rally in downtown sf today. Should I bring my dead baby placard

Most Moral Army in the world guys.

shakey maybe dress up as joe buck. i was cracking up at right wingers and other evangelist zionist types praising jon voight yesterday for his incredible bravery standing up to 'notoriously anti-semitic hollywood'.