The Death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri

she is good on looting too

Looting is often part of the “rioting” narrative. Peaceful protests that turn violent are often accompanied by looting. During the first night of the Ferguson protests there was looting reported at various locations nearby. Looting—stealing merchandise from vandalized businesses during a protest—happens separate from the actual protest taking place and its actual organizers and participants in every case I’ve ever heard about, anywhere, ever. Looting is often an opportunists’ game.

Looting, too, is about power. When people have nothing and something happens to remind them, in a big way, that what little they do have can be taken away in an instant, including their lives and the lives of their children, they may reach for any semblance of power or control they can get. That might mean breaking a window or even starting a fire. It may mean taking something. Something you’ve been told you can’t have because you’re not human enough to live, let alone prosper.

yes, great post.

i remember some of my first "conversations" about all this w/ my parents after katrina, venturing out and offering my newborn viewpoints on race in this completely white fictional matrix-like reality, i was having a hard time arguing with them because the personal property > people assumption is so ingrained. it's more an equation though, people are their personal property, people are personal property.

xp that post makes me want to reverse some of the things i was saying upthread about rioting and re-visit the jacobin piece tbh.

Looting, too, is about power. When people have nothing and something happens to remind them, in a big way, that what little they do have can be taken away in an instant, including their lives and the lives of their children, they may reach for any semblance of power or control they can get. That might mean breaking a window or even starting a fire. It may mean taking something. Something you’ve been told you can’t have because you’re not human enough to live, let alone prosper.

Maudlin, oversentimentalized and deeply insulting conflation of looting with any of the issues here. Looting is about getting wasted and going for nice shoes. It's not about power, race, or anything else. Fuck you.

I am reading this on Zing Touch so maybe you are quoting somebody but I can't tell.

imo the jacobin piece wasn't wrong as such but there was something seriously awry about its tone, i think that piece does a much better job of making the same points (and in far fewer words)

I'm befuddled by the comments about the Jacobin tone--the guy's a buddy, so maybe it's sailing past me for that reason alone.

And ~fields of salmon~, I am glad you've got things so cleanly figured out for all of us.

Maudlin, oversentimentalized and deeply insulting conflation of looting with any of the issues here. Looting is about getting wasted and going for nice shoes. It's not about power, race, or anything else. Fuck you.

man that is a deeply hostile response to a booming post imo

the quote is from the black girl dangerous post listed above, if you're interested in the rest of it:

http://www.blackgirldangerous.org/2014/08/things-stop-distracted-black-person-gets-murdered-police/

aero otm

The tweets from the last 15 minutes...

https://twitter.com/trymainelee

That was a lovely post, HOOS -- I've sent it around -- and while the explanation for the psychology of looting was 100 percent otm I wish the writer had at least written one sentence acknowledging that a person or family's livelihood was at the very least set back by the destruction of property.

for folks who come through later:

New witness on @TheLastWord says officer grabbed Mike Brown, fired through window.

Said Michael tried to pull away as officer tried to pull him in.

Was standing 20 feet away. Says first shot fired as Browns hands on outside of SUV trying to push away.

Police say struggle for weapon inside of police car. Witness, Tiffany said Brown never in car when officer fired.

Says officer followed after Brown as he ran, firing as he chased. More than 5 or 6 shots.

New witness says Browns back turned as officer was firing.

Witness says Michael turned around after body jerked from shot, turned with hands up. Officer kept firing.

After last shots officer paced back and forth as Michael's body lay on ground.

New witness echoes what earlier witness said of Brown shooting. No fight for gun. First shot fired from inside car. Others as back turned.

(these are the tweets Andy K was referring to)

oh god

I wish the writer had at least written one sentence acknowledging that a person or family's livelihood was at the very least set back by the destruction of property.

					SAL
		  Whatdafuck do you want?
					MOOKIE
		  I wants my money.  I wants to get
		  paid.
Sal looks at Mookie in disbelief.
					SAL
		  Mookie, I always liked you.  Not
		  the smartest kid, but you're honest.
		  Don't make me dislike you.
					MOOKIE
		  Sal, I want my money.
					SAL
		  Don't even ask about your money.
		  Your money wouldn't even pay for
		  that window you smashed.
					MOOKIE
		  Motherfuck a window, Radio Raheem
		  is dead.

comparisons all too unfortunately on the nose

@jeremyscahill
If they changed the name to Fergustan, the Obama admin might intervene

What is wrong with St. Louis.

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/74/6745663f-af5d-5498-83fa-dfcd0624a574/4f78d1257d05e.preview-620.jpg

two important points:

• This is a City of St. Louis vehicle, not a St. Louis County vehicle.
• This picture is two years old.

But still. "we are watching you!"

what happens when you just let anybody use the decal printer pbly

I mean that's three fonts, a bird, and a weird eyeball…stick…thing??

thought it was photoshop at first, had to look it up for independent verification.

how

on the fence about the looting. agree that the narrative "looting is about power..." is overly romantic and indulgent, though not by any means incorrect.

there was looting by WTO protesters in seattle way back when, and the looters seemed, for the most part, like young, middle-class would-be anarchists (one reporter's opinion). pointedly NOT the utterly dispossessed. the nighttime looting was a disruption of and, yeah, an insult to the peaceful and poltically sensible daylight protesting.

while i don't really know, i would imagine that there's something similar going on ferguson. crimes of opportunity enabled by the breakdown of superficially "civil" society. and looting, regarless of how much we empathize with the motives involved, does require some kind of police response, imo. not what we've been seeing in ferguson -- tanks in the streets, tear gas fusilades gas night after night, crude media suppression, guns trained on peaceful protesters, etc -- not that, but something strong enough to restrict it.

Many of us rush to condemn these types of disruptions because we’re actually content with neoliberalism’s post-racial illusion. At the burned down QuikTrip, someone left a sign addressed to their “corporate neighbor,” in the hopes that the business would return: “Dear Corporate Neighbor, I am sorry this act of robbery & violence has happened. Please return soon. I stop in 2-3 times per week.” On the surface, addressing the effects of rioting is an important political issue. By framing themselves as a customer in need of their “corporate neighbor,” it’s possible that this person is acting not out of concern for the working people that lost their jobs — their actual neighbors — but from the fear that their shopping routine will be disturbed. Like Deandre Smith observed, we identify more strongly with broken windows than broken people.

This part of the Jacobin piece - which I mostly like - gets it wrong, I think. What's to sneer at in someone's shopping "routine" being "disturbed"?

speaking of the battle in Seattle

(Disclaimer: yeah really no reason to care what that dude says about this but hey)

xps to contendo

I was in Seattle then as well, and involved in those protests on a media level, and the looting that was on TV was purely opportunistic late night stuff, no masks. the kind of thing that fits the original post in question (which I obvs totally agree with). the folks you refer to were breaking windows during the day, but that's a whole different thing. if there was anything like what you describe, I don't remember it, and I was paying attention.

curious about how many majority-white districts in america have a majority-nonwhite police force

rally on boston common was great tonight. lots of urgent fire and love from everyone who grabbed the mic. hope this keeps rolling into some serious work. city needs it.

xp sleeve, i'm talking abt the nighttime attacks on like niketown & starbucks downtown, not so much the liquor store hits (etc?) up on cap hill, as i didn't see any of that. most of the vandals i saw just seemed like kids out having fun, though yeah, not the much-discussed "black mask" crowd. so far as i saw.

^ i mean, i've read reporting saying black masks were involved in the assaults against those stores, but didn't see it happen myself, so i can't say for sure.

i tweeted antonio french's photo of the pastor with the rubber-bullet wound and it's getting a lot of RTs. happy to be "twitter famous" for spreading a real message rather than a dumb joke.

riot vs. peaceful demonstration becomes a false choice when police are this eager to unconstitutionally suppress lawful free assembly

― ODB's missing grammy (bernard snowy), Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:57 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^ tbomb

It may mean taking something. Something you’ve been told you can’t have because you’re not human enough to live, let alone prosper.

I think this was the part of that post where I started a combination of screaming and howling with laughter. There's a difference between being "not human enough to live" and being part of a discriminated and unfairly treated group in present day America. I'm thinking of some recent and not-so-recent historical events to put things in perspective—Gaza, the Balkans, Sudan, the Holocaust. The majority of Americans, even the poor black ones, can still go home, flip on the TV, and put some popcorn in the microwave oven. Most Americans still have the ability to express their sexualities and reproductive choices (although less so in the Republican areas, as far as I can tell as an outsider) and those that have kids can be reasonably certain they won't die in infancy or be taken away. Boys and girls are both free to attend school, and girls are not forcibly married at twelve or fourteen. It's also unlikely anyone will fire a rocket at your children's school.

I'll say it again, looting is not about power. It's about the opportunity to attain free consumer goods. I'm a middle class white person and I'd probably loot given the right circumstances. I don't begrudge people for ALSO looting in a time of turmoil or rage, but I've seen people looting after their sports team won or lost. It's all just... Stuff. Consumer goods. Please, don't conflate any of the issues surrounding a person being murdered by a police officer and all of the implications that holds for everyday life with people taking shoes from Foot Locker. These are two. different. things.

To be fair I didn't realize mattresslessness was quoting from a post by somebody else—who was talking about things people get distracted by when there is an event like this. In context, the paragraph about looting actually makes sense.

Hoo boy

depressed

There's a difference between being "not human enough to live" and being part of a discriminated and unfairly treated group in present day America.

i am sure the african american community, whose young men are imprisoned at rates to rival any cohort of oppressed people globally, who are victims of gun violence every 28 hours, who are prosecuted to stiffer penalties than their white counterparts for every possible crime, and who continue to endure all this punishment due to centuries of ignorance and injustice, despite the fact that they live in 'the greatest country in the world' will appreciate this difference and enjoy their fucking popcorn.

Also, the whole issue at hand, as the linked post indicated repeatedly, is that a black teenager is fair game for murder at any moment. So yeah, ''not human enough to live'' maybe seems closer to the mark.

Whenever a cop shoots a black youth and it makes the papers, what's the most common reaction? "He had a criminal past, he was no angel" or "He was committing a crime at the time, if he hadn't have done that, perhaps things would have gone differently".

Would some of these folks criticizing Brown share the same opinion if he was a white victim? I am doubting it. Folks come into these stories with their confirmation bias and assumptions, and as a result, they legitimize the actions of the police force.

I can't at all blame someone for feeling like they're "not human enough to live". Or, quite honestly, being scared out of their mind right now. It's fucking heartbreaking.

fields of salmon with a classic i'm white btw post

two important points:

• This is a City of St. Louis vehicle, not a St. Louis County vehicle.
• This picture is two years old.

That was at Skinker and Delmar. Here's "why" the truck was there http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/04/200-youths-riot-at-popular-st-louis-restaurant-district-gunshots-caught-on-video/

btw Delmar = http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17361995

Darren Wilson named as the officer who shot Michael Brown

Jeez didn't Anonymous tweet a different guy? That's really shitty

"Robbery suspect," huh? That's a new one.

Yeah, apparently they didn't leet hack their way into the Ferguson PDs personnel files after all.

"Robbery suspect," huh? That's a new one.

― Andy K, Friday, 15 August 2014 10:01 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a bit convenient, at that

OH, wait -- I forgot about the chatter about a candy bar.

Can't remember where that chatter came from, though.

probably Y0ungC0ns3rv4tiv3s.c0m, who are touting new pics that paint a 'diff pic' of Michael Brown cos he's pictured flipping the bird in one pic. they were the first hit I got when searching for the name and "candy bar".