the scottish independence referendum

Not sure if stirmonster posts to ILE - really liked this account of his shift from no to yes:
http://nationalcollective.com/2014/09/05/keith-mcivor-optimo-independence-offers-the-possibility-to-start-again/

wonder what the turn out is going to be like for this

I think maybe 80%

.scot might be made redundant if the Scottish referendum on independence succeeds as Scotland would leave the United Kingdom and get its own two letter country code top-level domain (ccTLD)

.sc/.sd/.sl/.so/.st already taken tho

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/referendum-turnout

.ce

eh, in what way?

To annoy some bigoted twats and maybe help to drag them into the 21st century?

.aa or .ab are free (for Alba)

.aa would be appropriate maybe because ah no, won't do that joke.

If Scotland renames itself Alba, it will see almost the same rate of use as Eire when referring to Ireland. Not that this is a problem. Alba is sort of cute.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/08/scottish-independence-david-cameron-no-campaign-windows-8

Does anyone outside the UK actually care that much about this? Like I don't think anyone in Britain would be too bothered if Catalunya or Texas or wherever became independent

Voted Scotland/yes btw

I suspect there are a lot of Anglophiles over here going 'oh noes.' (Of course, I did say Anglophiles.)

I find it a little sad, it's like when a couple who was really cute together breaks up

Quite some attention for this in Holland. Because we're neighbours I suppose. And for the lols.

Knee-jerk non-UK/N vote, with about as much knowledge as the non-UK/Y people have afaict

(preferring to err on the side of not making radical changes to the status quo, at least concerning a liberal democracy that has been together for centuries)

not very liberal or very democratic tbf

would like to hear how/why foreigners feel nostalgia for ~britain~ or the uk gov

will this vote somehow lead to James McAvoy doing a nonshitty movie once in awhile?

so how long before the Welsh are like "you know what we don't like the English either"

nostalgia

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save The King.

english-born population in scotland is about 8% of the total and in wales about 20%

^ as an englishman living in scotland i've been wondering abt that - and abt how we will be perceived in a independent scotland. may you live in interesting times eh

would like to hear how/why foreigners feel nostalgia for ~britain~ or the uk gov

Took up white man's burden, civilized my people iirc

well yeah you can see why I'm a little bemused

xp there are twice as many scottish born ppl living in england than the reverse, idk how much change there'd be

not very liberal or very democratic tbf

Oh, come on! compared to who?

so how long before the Welsh are like "you know what we don't like the English either"

That's much less likely to happen. Not because the Welsh love the English, just other stuff.

xp to rephrase then: the fact that "liberal democracy" may be one of the less shitty forms of political organization human beings have managed thus far in our history doesn't really make it much to get excited about imo

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/10/scottish-independence-poll-no-vote-lead

I'll agree with that x-post

Questions for people who've been following this more closely than me:
If an independent Scotland is outside of the EU (initially, at least) what would that mean for Scottish people already living and working in EU countries? Would they still have the right to be there?
Also, how would things work in terms of British passports and Scottish passports? If you were a Scot living in (for example) Paris at the time of independence, would you have to apply for a Scottish passport in order to get back home again or could you still travel on a British passport? In fact, would Scottish people living in England have to choose if they were Scottish or 'British' (what would that even mean any more?)? And what about English people living in Scotland?

uk govt is v centralized & has seen v little significant reform for a long time. there are more or less the same number of mps now as there were 300 years ago, and since then suffrage has been greatly extended and the population has gone up by about ten times.

As a Scot living in England, aiui I will not be Scottish next week in the event of a Yes vote. I think I could potentially obtain a Scottish passport but that isn't clear - the proposal has dealt with Brits living in Scotland and said they will get a Scottish passport in addition to the UK one.

Xpost

English people living in Scotland will get Scottish passports, because they will be Scottish.

The theory is that after the vote we would be independent in 18months (right?) And that would be enough time to negotiate Scotland's position in the EU, so there would be no overlap.

can see no reason why Scots living outside of Scotland will not be able to apply for a Scottish passport

or lack of overlap. you know what I mean - no point where Scots are not members of the EU.

is there a good web site that summarizes the most common/best arguments pro and con? i mean, for an american doofus like myself.

Well neither do I but I have seen nothing on it - but it wouldn't actually be any use, unless you wanted a clean passport and a dirty one. xpost

the uk is unusually undemocratic because it has been unusually stable for so long. there has been no occasion to reform, it's all been done piecemeal & w/out an overarching vision

i don't think it's only about that - central government has been steadily swallowing up previously regional powers since the 1980s at least

On a vaguely related subject - do you Irish people need passports to travel to Britain and do British people need passports to travel to Ireland or do we have some kind of arrangement in place?

It's difficult to suggest a site because like any other polarising event the neutral is viewed as biased by both sides.

there are no passport checks driving between the Republic and Northern Ireland that i've ever seen, sure it was different pre '97

xxxp I guess I wasn't thinking of centralizing as reform but obviously it is. I've seen politicians opining about the strengthening of the PM at the expense of the cabinet too. you could probably make a case for the constitution being responsible for the relative mildness of british political culture

centralization of state and parties has been a v. anti-democratic force in general i think, certainly it's the single biggest stake driven thru the Labour party's corpse

One more question: after partition, were people in Northern Ireland entitled to have an Irish passport instead of / as well as a British one (e.g. a nationalist born in Derry before Ireland was split in two and who considered himself Irish, not British)? And if they were, is that still true today? And if it is still true today, does that mean a footballer from Belfast could choose if they want to play for Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland?
(sorry for derailing this a bit, but I'm looking for precedents to get a sense of what is likely to happen)

what's the ideological basis for scottish expatriates not having a vote?

no representation without taxation