the scottish independence referendum

Now that everyone's got excited, No will win

fear factor always wins out and Scotland will not get any more real meaningful powers,nothing will change for the rest of us in the UK and business as usual until the EU referendum when the scare stories will re-appear but used against those using it now. Only difference is the media will be biased towards them.

Worst of all long-term outcomes = emphatic Yes, then 1997, again (eased in by the cosh coming down from business / finance)

Farrell to play role of Benjamin in the indyref Animal Farm.

(I'll be your understudy)

its spreading

http://i.imgur.com/BKZASVp.png

Ward Fowler are you yes?

yes

if the independence of scotland is a terrible idea because of the currency issue, then in catalonia it seems even worse.

whatsa difference if it's the ECB callin the shots?

Back to 52-48 to no for YouGov.

ask the greeks, Tracer.

Non UK / Y

I don't think Quebec separatists are comparable to Scotland's wanting independence, I have to say, though I guess a lot of people will assume they are.

I voted no in this thread's poll but I've heard so many things since then and now I'm too scared to vote either way. I don't feel I have enough knowledge about politics and economics to vote responsibly.
Whatever the outcome is I'll probably be disappointed. Mostly favouring independence out of sheer curiosity to see what will happen.

When is the next referendum if we don't get independence this time?

Just out of interest, have there been any polls of what the English would like the result of the referendum to be? (Not counting this poll, obviously)

Narrow win for the no team then probably. A win for the bourgeoisie, the squares, the scared, the conformed. In other words: a win for people who wouldn't in their life make a true difference for Scotland anyway.

I have several Scottish friends and seeing the hope soar within them, the sudden chance to finally materialize or contribute to independence, to self-determination, has been endearing. And not in a naive way. There's huge flocks of youngsters ready to shape their soil into a fruitful new country. It has been a huge uplifting thing to watch.

But it won't happen. Because it never does. This'll end in tears. As everything does in the UK...

if the independence of scotland is a terrible idea because of the currency issue, then in catalonia it seems even worse.

― Van Horn Street, Thursday, September 11, 2014 2:12 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

whatsa difference if it's the ECB callin the shots?

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, September 11, 2014 4:49 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ya since spain is already on the euro doesnt seem like theres really not much difference if an independent catalonia stays on the euro, its not like theyre super poor compared to the rest of spain r they

tho maybe theyre planning on having their own currency idk

Non UK / Y

I don't think Quebec separatists are comparable to Scotland's wanting independence, I have to say, though I guess a lot of people will assume they are.

― ∞, Thursday, September 11, 2014 7:04 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you are right, they aren't. quebec separatism was mainly a question of nationalism, a nationalism that is growing increasingly awkward.

i much prefer the general statement behind scotland's independence, but i believe the risk of backfiring is there and quite scary.

When is the next referendum if we don't get independence this time?

it took quebec 15 years after the first one

then they passed a law in canada that you basically cant succeed

not the right place to discuss this, but there is a few very good things about the clarity act.

I don't feel I have enough knowledge about politics and economics to vote responsibly.

gtfo then

suppose you'll have to abide by the decisions of far less responsible people then

Just out of interest, have there been any polls of what the English would like the result of the referendum to be?

Depends how you ask the question (or when you ask it, possibly)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9015374/Britain-divided-over-Scottish-independence.html
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/01/english-welsh-majority-against-scots-independence

I'd love to bottle the pompous complacency amongst UK colleagues, some family and acquaintances - a mix of unthought dislike of, or contempt for Scots yoked with strong feelings Scotland should NOT be independent - and spray it over Scotland on the day of voting. Not that it doesn't come across clear as day anyway, but just to be *sure*.

Give me RAG's honest doubt and confusion over cheap rhetoric like this:

Narrow win for the no team then probably. A win for the bourgeoisie, the squares, the scared, the conformed. In other words: a win for people who wouldn't in their life make a true difference for Scotland anyway.

I'm voting Yes in part because I can afford to - no kids, no mortgage, enough family and work ties to London that if it all goes tits up, I can re-locate relatively easily. But there are plenty of working families here who have very legitimate worries and concerns about their future, the future of their children and of their country. It's simple-minded to pretend or believe that there aren't merits to both the Yes and No positions. That's why I have a lot of respect for the undecideds in this case, and mistrust the utterly certain on both sides of the debate.

It feels to me like the weeks before the 1992 General Election

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROKXlvYMKQc

A Hertfordshire radio station has banned all Scottish music until after the independence referendum.

BOB FM says it is going "Scot Free" by removing artists like Paolo Nutini and Primal Scream from its playlist until after 18 September.

Better Together said it was "not the biggest issue" affecting Scotland.

A Yes Scotland spokesman said the "sound of celebration" after a Yes vote will be heard "as far as the Home Counties."

On Wednesday morning, breakfast show host Graham Mack interrupted '500 Miles' by The Proclaimers to announce the ban on Scottish music.

He said: "I've had enough of this! You'll walk 500 hundred miles, but you don't want anything to do with England? After all we've done for you!

"From now on, this radio station is banning anything Scottish, that includes music by ALL Scottish artists! Until further notice, BOB fm is now Scot Free!"

The station also created a new logo featuring the union flag without the Scottish blue.

A spokesman for Yes Scotland said: "The sound of celebration after a Yes vote next Thursday will be heard, even as far as the Home Counties, and will be music to our ears."

A spokesman for Better Together said: "In a week where major banks have said they plan to move business to England, this is probably not the biggest issue affecting people in Scotland."

Haven't Primal Scream suffered enough this week?

That reminds me, has Boab Gillespie had anything to say on the referendum? He's usually not short of opinions.

“I can’t look in terms of Scotland. It’s bigger than that,” he said.

“People in Liverpool have been hammered, Manchester and Southampton. All over.

“Everybody has been hammered, not just the Scottish.

“We can’t be nationalistic about it. Nationalism has never done it for me. It leads to fascism.

“Ultimately, someone like Alex Salmond manipulates people’s national pride and insecurities but he is obviously a power-mad kind of guy.”

I expected he'd be a No

swastika ayes basically

Not very rebellious there, eh Boab?

LOL (xp)

“Everybody has been hammered, not just the Scottish.

Aye, yer right there, Boab, we're no' the only boozers on the planet efter a'

“People in Liverpool have been hammered, Manchester and Southampton. All over.

He's right enough. I've been in the pub with him and Mani.

Is it bad to not really listen to people saying that other places are being hard done by as well? They're not the ones getting to make this choice. I'll happily support them when they get themselves the chance to do something, and I would like it if they could applaud Scotland for making the most of the opportunity put in front of them rather than going "b-b-b-but what about us?".

Re Gillespie's witterings, I don't think this is really about nationalism, it's about self-determination. Pretty sure we're going to wake up a nation of fascists next Friday morning if Scotland says yes. Power-mad Alex Salmond offered to step down if it would help, which isn't really a sign of a future dictator now, is it? http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/salmond-i-would-quit-if-it-meant-a-yes-vote-1-3514731

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/lookandlearn-preview/M/M014/M014390-08.jpg

I can see how old-school left-wingers who believe in the solidarity and unity of the British working class (however you define that these days) would favour a no vote fwiw, but I don't think that's what Bobby G's getting at there. In any case since when has Bobby Gillespie ever talked sense about politics?

Like, probably the most positive outcome in the event of a No vote would be for that energy to join with other left-leaning groups across the country to push for a change in the status quo that benefits the whole of the UK. Whether that would happen is a different matter, especially with the Labour Party getting in the way (either by glomming onto it and taking it over or actively standing in the way.)

Right, but there won't be a country for it to be across?

I can see how old-school left-wingers who believe in the solidarity and unity of the British working class (however you define that these days) would favour a no vote fwiw, but I don't think that's what Bobby G's getting at there.

I think that is what he's getting at.

Yes, and I'm mistaking 'No' for 'Yes', like some kind of spanner.

Bob's from a serious Old Labour background, his Dad was not so much an Old Labour dinosaur as, uh, whatever came before the dinosaurs.

Bobby's dad lost the 1988 Govan bi-election to Jim Sillars (who abandoned Labour to join the Nats in the early 80s).

Indeed and he was one of the most inept candidates I've ever seen in my life... and that's by Scottish Labour standards, and that's as low as you can go frankly.

I can see how old-school left-wingers who believe in the solidarity and unity of the British working class (however you define that these days) would favour a no vote fwiw

Judging by my Yes leaning FB friends, and one (ex?) ILXor is most vocal in this respect, this is completely arse about and a Yes vote is the only option for the proper left wing as anyone voting No is clearly "a Tory".

I have seen a smattering of this kind of thing from the Yes campaign and it drives me pretty nuts, even though I understand how strong feelings are:

http://www.facebook.com/375717285904621/posts/398295893646760