That's democracy for you!
― FYI Macedonia (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 16:30 (ten years ago) link
lol how is that different from the U.S.
― pplains, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 16:33 (ten years ago) link
We tend to hate all of them except the ones who could never win.
They're politicians. It makes sense.
― I misuse (onimo), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 16:34 (ten years ago) link
There's at least one more party to hate (xp)
― FYI Macedonia (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 16:34 (ten years ago) link
― pplains, Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:33 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
idk I guess the well-attested problems of the US two-party system make their inevitability seem more explicable; in like the Israeli Knesset you at least have a dozen or so parties that everyone hates.
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 16:38 (ten years ago) link
If we really do hate these parties whether in Israel, the U.S or Britain, we're not doing much to show it.
― tsrobodo, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 16:48 (ten years ago) link
Uh, hello, Scottish independence?
― FYI Macedonia (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 16:55 (ten years ago) link
the last few weeks have highlighted how decrepit and risible the current constitutional settlement is
would truly be music to my ears if there were more general cognizance of this (with accompanying disquiet) as a result of the referendum
― ogmor, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 16:56 (ten years ago) link
xpBeing the exception
― tsrobodo, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 16:58 (ten years ago) link
sorry if this has been answered but can't see that it has
One more question: after partition, were people in Northern Ireland entitled to have an Irish passport instead of / as well as a British one (e.g. a nationalist born in Derry before Ireland was split in two and who considered himself Irish, not British)?
And if they were, is that still true today?
And if it is still true today, does that mean a footballer from Belfast could choose if they want to play for Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland?
Yeah, but I wouldn't use football as the model given yr Townsends, Cascarinos and so forth.
Polls now saying 51/49 in favour of No.
― gyac, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 17:53 (ten years ago) link
and now shetland might go it alone post-yes vote?
― john wahey (NickB), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 18:01 (ten years ago) link
^ at least in the event of there being a lot of shetland poll naes
― john wahey (NickB), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 18:03 (ten years ago) link
how come Cameron isn't threatening to invade if Scotland votes for independence
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 18:17 (ten years ago) link
I mean, that's how we roll over here in 'Merica
I'm really hoping there'll be little or no violence this week. Especially if there is a No result.
I saw comedian Stephen Carlin on tv recently, talking about how despite the reputation for violence, we haven't had many riots compared to England.
Is knife crime less popular? I don't hear about it much these days.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 18:33 (ten years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxwTq0-IEAIySZa.jpg
Terry O'Neil, 55, was stunned to see a piece of chicken in his KFC fillet feast resemble Britain - but without Scotland
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 18:37 (ten years ago) link
the colonel has voted
― Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 18:39 (ten years ago) link
the only bit of Europe you can see is garbage
― StanM, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 18:42 (ten years ago) link
how come Cameron isn't threatening to invade if Scotland votes for independence― Οὖτις, Wednesday, September 17, 2014 6:17 PM (38 minutes ago)I mean, that's how we roll over here in 'Merica― Οὖτις, Wednesday, September 17, 2014 6:17 PM (38 minutes ago)
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, September 17, 2014 6:17 PM (38 minutes ago)
not a bad question actually -- our view of which secession attempts are legit and which aren't (ukraine, bosnia, kosovo, et al) tends to be inconsistent to say the least.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 19:01 (ten years ago) link
People are dismissing the defence concerns with "who's going to attack Scotland?" without thinking about being a small oil-rich nation next door to a nuclear superpower.
― I misuse (onimo), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 19:57 (ten years ago) link
lol
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 20:00 (ten years ago) link
Back in 2003 some kids from my highschool were marching on the street chanting: 'Alaska, Iraq, Norway will be next'
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 20:01 (ten years ago) link
as well as presumably continuing to build uk warships and possibly host some of the uk submarine fleet? xps
― john wahey (NickB), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 20:01 (ten years ago) link
Alaska?
xp
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 20:02 (ten years ago) link
Oil-rich area overtaken by the US.
We may or may not have been mediocre at history.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 17 September 2014 20:05 (ten years ago) link
i don't know enough to have a solid opinion about the decision, but i'm eagerly anticipating the outcome of this votehave also been enjoying hearing all the scottish voices on the radioyesterday npr talked to a bagpipe player from glasgow :)
― cross over the mushroom circle (La Lechera), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 20:12 (ten years ago) link
worst scum of the universe, those bagpipe players
― Barry Gordy (Neil S), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 21:46 (ten years ago) link
gyac - thanks for those belated answers
― Turtleneck Work Solutions (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Wednesday, 17 September 2014 23:07 (ten years ago) link
how many times am i going to greet the-morra?
poll?
i gret four times the day.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 18 September 2014 00:43 (ten years ago) link
Andy Murray says he's decided to vote Yes because of "no campaign negativity last few days". I still can't believe that anyone consciously votes on something this important as a reaction to how a campaign has been handled.
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 00:47 (ten years ago) link
Good timing though.
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 00:49 (ten years ago) link
I thought she was Canadian?
― pplains, Thursday, 18 September 2014 00:53 (ten years ago) link
i would have thought he'd be responding to general negativity, rather than specifically about the handling of the campaign, which seems quite legitimate. they've all said, we have one chance and it won't be given to us again, perhaps he thought it's best to grasp that opportunity. what can any of us do? we're not economists and even the economists (even the reasonably impartial ones) disagree so wildly that we're all taking a stab in the dark. to my mind there is NO WAY i can allow the status quo to continue which it will if i X on the NO box. who am i kidding - the status quo is the best i can expect if i X NO, there is much much worse on the horizon, and those who are rising genuinely hate the scots.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 18 September 2014 01:04 (ten years ago) link
sorry i tried to redraft that and it got garbled.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 18 September 2014 01:05 (ten years ago) link
there is much much worse on the horizon, and those who are rising genuinely hate the scots.
well, that parts def pretty negative, who's rising?
― music for cryonic suspension (Hunt3r), Thursday, 18 September 2014 01:21 (ten years ago) link
gingerists
― mookieproof, Thursday, 18 September 2014 01:25 (ten years ago) link
Boris Johnson, of course. Theresa May. Ukip is rising not so much as a force in itself but as an influence on the tories, i believe.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 18 September 2014 01:26 (ten years ago) link
It's not really the economic arguments that would convince me to be a No voter, jed. It's that I'm deeply suspicious of separatism as a route to escaping rightwing government, both in practical terms, and in terms of the "looking after your own" aspects of it. But many better-educated people than me have wrestled with this and come out for Yes, and I'm respectful of their intentions. I am lucky in that what I want and expect out of this referendum is the same thing, though I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that I wish it hadn't taken place at all.
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 01:36 (ten years ago) link
oh i know you love scotland, you've spent so long here, but i can't really parse some of that:
I am lucky in that what I want and expect out of this referendum is the same thing
are you saying you expect yes to lose and want it? because i think you may be surprised. maybe you mean something else though.
I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that I wish it hadn't taken place at all.
why not? and for whose sake do you wish that?
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 18 September 2014 01:45 (ten years ago) link
That's what I mean, yes.
Because for a while I believed in the "what a wonderful flowering of political debate" line and of course there has been, but I wonder, in the event of a No vote, what that energy will become. I dearly hope it will continue to drive political engagement, but I worry that it will make people more resentful, feel more disenfranchised. And I worry that the smash-bang-wallop appeal of an independence referendum will make normal politics seem a waste of time. There's much that's wrong with everyday politics, but there's much that's important and valuable too. And then there's the question of the divisiveness. Without being up there, I can only go on other people's reports (both friends' and media) about the resentment felt by Yes voters towards No voters, but if No prevails, I just hope whatever wounds there are don't fester.
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 01:52 (ten years ago) link
resentment would be equally felt by no campaigners in the result of a yes win surely. Its not that long since letter bombs were sent by bigoted loonies up there. One would hope that loonies on either side will stick to being armchair warriors.
― strychnine, Thursday, 18 September 2014 02:02 (ten years ago) link
Sorry, I wasn't meaning to make a judgment about what disappointed No campaigners would do vs what disappointed Yes campaigners would. It's just that I expect a No win, so it was that way around that I was talking.
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 02:06 (ten years ago) link
thanks Nick. It's not going to be pretty, either way, but i'm certainly happy it has happened. i've never seen such a high level of political engagement in the uk and i never expect to see it again. we should celebrate that at least.
i suppose it useless to speculate, and we'll find out in 26-28 hours anyway, but my hunch is that yes will win and that it won't be that tight.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 18 September 2014 02:23 (ten years ago) link
The polls are saying the opposite! No poll has Yes ahead so why the confidence?
― strychnine, Thursday, 18 September 2014 02:30 (ten years ago) link
i'm not really sure what you mean.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 18 September 2014 02:32 (ten years ago) link
seems like in a super high stakes unprecedented situation like this it wld be pretty easy to get the turnout estimates wrong and if one side is more enthusiastic that cld easily swing it
― lag∞n, Thursday, 18 September 2014 02:34 (ten years ago) link
need some unskewed polling obvs
― mookieproof, Thursday, 18 September 2014 02:35 (ten years ago) link
i'm not confident, at all. it's just a hunch based on the polls generally being weighted towards the status quo because of the way they do them (they phone land lines, for the most part). new registrations from 16-18 year olds, who are generally outside the polling criteria will be weighted towards yes, imo, as would previously disenfranchised voters who have registered specifically for this vote.
it's all conjecture.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 18 September 2014 02:39 (ten years ago) link
"imo" doing a lot of work again.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 18 September 2014 02:40 (ten years ago) link
the polls generally being weighted towards the status quo because of the way they do them (they phone land lines, for the most part)
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:39 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
as a john kerry voter i strongly advise you against hanging your hat on this particular unit of thought
― lag∞n, Thursday, 18 September 2014 02:45 (ten years ago) link