yeah ive said here before that he is the best guardian writer by a furlong (although some days that is not unlike being celtic in scottish football)elliot is quite good too
― Nothing less than the Spirit of the Age (nakhchivan), Thursday, 18 September 2014 15:07 (nine years ago) link
do you think salmond seriously wants to remain under ecb dominion forever xps? not a rhetorical question, maybe he does idkseems more like a temporary step that is given prominence to reisssue scottish debtors, its not like hardline nationalists wont vote yes anyway
― Nothing less than the Spirit of the Age (nakhchivan), Thursday, 18 September 2014 15:08 (nine years ago) link
#reassure#
What's the point of a 49.9%/50.1% score? Shouldn't it be "at least 75% of the votes" or something?
― StanM, Thursday, 18 September 2014 15:34 (nine years ago) link
are u arguing this should be a supermajority vote
― Nothing less than the Spirit of the Age (nakhchivan), Thursday, 18 September 2014 15:42 (nine years ago) link
Not supermajority perhaps, but too close and we'll never hear the end of it from the losing side.
― StanM, Thursday, 18 September 2014 15:46 (nine years ago) link
fairly sure if it required say 51% and 50.93% voted yes you would get rather more rancour.....
― Nothing less than the Spirit of the Age (nakhchivan), Thursday, 18 September 2014 15:48 (nine years ago) link
Setting up an independent country in which, say, 49.5% of its inhabitants don't want it to it exist does seem a bit crazier than the other way around.
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 15:57 (nine years ago) link
i keep wondering what would happen to, say, a scottish family living and working in marseilles.
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:03 (nine years ago) link
Could keep UK passport and apply for Scottish one if they wanted it.
― Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:06 (nine years ago) link
huh!
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:07 (nine years ago) link
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:57 (8 minutes ago)
49.5% of its inhabitants voting no ≠ 49.5% of its inhabitants don't want an independent scotland to exist tout court
― Nothing less than the Spirit of the Age (nakhchivan), Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:08 (nine years ago) link
As far as I know, nobody will be forced to give up a UK passport unless they apply for a Scottish one and the UK decides to ban dual passports, which they won't.
― Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:09 (nine years ago) link
What are they going to do, all move to Northern Ireland, like the Orange Order imagines?
― FYI Macedonia (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:11 (nine years ago) link
shd just vote with twitter http://trendsmap.com/v2/Lf62/w
― lag∞n, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:11 (nine years ago) link
People would get used to the idea and get on with their lives... if actually happened, which it won't
― FYI Macedonia (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:13 (nine years ago) link
My brother has moved back to No because, in his words, "the Yessers are a total embarrassment"
― FYI Macedonia (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:18 (nine years ago) link
To be fair, almost any large scale movement looks like a total embarrassment.
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:25 (nine years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:27 (nine years ago) link
there are some legitimacy arguments wrt the majoritarian plebiscite for something as significant and irreversible as this
then there is the rejoinder that if votes were weighted by life expectancy in order to favour those who are most exposed to the perils of living in a new country, there would be a clear if not super-majority
― Nothing less than the Spirit of the Age (nakhchivan), Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:29 (nine years ago) link
― lag∞n, Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:11 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
tons of yes tweets coming from catalonia
― lag∞n, Thursday, 18 September 2014 16:38 (nine years ago) link
Until a few weeks ago I was firmly No (voted No on this thread), then I was sure I wasn't going to vote at all because I wasn't confident about either side; then 20 minutes ago I decided to vote and voted Yes out of overwhelming curiosity to see what it's like if independence does happen.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:13 (nine years ago) link
Remember when Twitter was small enough to have a world map like that just showed any old tweet?
twittervision
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:13 (nine years ago) link
'stoked 4 the madness' vote could be key
― intelligent, expressive males within the greater metropolitan (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:14 (nine years ago) link
has there been comments on this whole by Wales or NI officials? is there any chance the Welsh follow suit?
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:14 (nine years ago) link
No fucking chance
― FYI Macedonia (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:17 (nine years ago) link
I get this. The economics adage of you pray for the change because natural experiments are the only experiments.
― Allen (etaeoe), Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:21 (nine years ago) link
The stoked 4 the madness vote makes sense if your life is either so good or so shit that you can hardly imagine it being worse, I guess. I am middle-aged.
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:31 (nine years ago) link
there do seem to be enough people in the central belt of scotland for whom life is miserable indeed
― Nothing less than the Spirit of the Age (nakhchivan), Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:33 (nine years ago) link
Many of whom will be voting for the first time ever - or that's what we're told, I hope they do but I can see the turnout being not as big as predicted
― FYI Macedonia (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:35 (nine years ago) link
Can you imagine if poor people voted all over the UK? Wow, hold on to your hats, if not your seats.
― FYI Macedonia (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:36 (nine years ago) link
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 20hWow. Edinburgh council says 89.6% of postal votes have been returned. That's massive. #indyref http://bit.ly/ZpOZMk
Rebecca Gray @Rebecca__Gray 4hBy 10am, 18.5% of Scots had voted! Huge turnout. #indyref http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/u/indyref-live-vote.18092014718
big turnout as expected
― lag∞n, Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:25 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
on track
― lag∞n, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:37 (nine years ago) link
Alba, you don't seem to be particularly keen on democracy atm.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:43 (nine years ago) link
tbf democracy is bad
― lag∞n, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:43 (nine years ago) link
I'm fine with democracy, and of course wish Scotland well whatever the result.
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:46 (nine years ago) link
Oh, do you mean my comment about large scale movements? I just mean I'm naturally squeamish about sloganeering and "come on let's be positive and stop overthinking things" type mentality, even though part of me thinks that's just something I have to suck up as long as it doesn't veer into totalitarianism.
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:49 (nine years ago) link
a combination of - i wish this had never happened & the 50% issue as well as that but really i was just being daft.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 18 September 2014 17:56 (nine years ago) link
argument for democracy being bad seems to be reinforced somewhat by the spectrum of reasons ppl are giving for voting on this particular occasion.
not claiming that my reasoning would be any less spurious or half-assed if i were to vote of course.
― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:00 (nine years ago) link
Is Scotland going to join the Euro or will they be getting their own Scotto? (maybe with something from this album http://www.scott-o.com/ as the anthem?)
― StanM, Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:04 (nine years ago) link
Jed: oh, well the "wish this had never happened" thing (in the event of a No vote, really) is more a pragmatic thing about my fears about how a loss would affect enthusiastic Yes supporters and maybe the nation's psyche. But I do in more general terms reject the idea that it's undemocratic to not always want referendums. I mean, I'm not an expert on democratic systems at all, but I think most of us aren't advocating referendums as a primary tool of democracy, it's just the argument about when they're appropriate and when they aren't.
As for the 50% thing, I wasn't really arguing in favour of a supermajority hurdle – I haven't thought enough about it. It just did strike me as a kind of bad start for a country if nearly half of its inhabitants voted not to have it become independent. Yes, you can look at it vice versa.
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:05 (nine years ago) link
Is Scotland going to join the Euro or will they be getting their own Scotto?
The Jeez-o
― FYI Macedonia (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:06 (nine years ago) link
I suppose the reason I don't think it's as bad vice versa, and I may be wrong about this, is that I think of the people voting Yes, many are voting for it as a means to an end, not because they fundamentally don't like the idea of being in union with the other parts of the UK. For a start, many may well have preferred devo-max if that was on the ballot paper.
― Alba, Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:07 (nine years ago) link
It just did strike me as a kind of bad start for a country if nearly half of its inhabitants voted not to have it become independent. Yes, you can look at it vice versa.― Alba, Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:05 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Alba, Thursday, September 18, 2014 7:05 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I guess in the past, it was very different (with imperialism/expansionism being the norm) and these are different times, but that kind of interests me.
― ∞, Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:09 (nine years ago) link
many may well have preferred devo-max if that was on the ballot paper.
And people still think Cameron should keep his job after this fiasco?
― FYI Macedonia (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:10 (nine years ago) link
Fuck me, the brother has changed his mind AGAIN and voted Yes!
― FYI Macedonia (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:13 (nine years ago) link
It just did strike me as a kind of bad start for a country if nearly half of its inhabitants voted not to have it become independent.
― ∞, Thursday, September 18, 2014 2:09 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yeah that's one the basic ideas behind Canada's clarity act.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:16 (nine years ago) link
One of my more trivial concerns about this referendum is that I won't feel comfortable wearing a t-shirt for my favourite prog rock band Yes. A lot of people will think I'm obsessed with the referendum after it has passed, and the Roger Dean designs would just make me seem all the weirder.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:22 (nine years ago) link
Yeah, I haven't been wearing my two ISIS t-shirts for a couple of months either now.
― StanM, Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:30 (nine years ago) link
I was going to joke about this but I'm too late:
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/dot-scot-internet-domain-given-go-ahead-1-3140723
― StanM, Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:34 (nine years ago) link
ha xp
― fedora, wherever it may find her (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 September 2014 18:34 (nine years ago) link