thread for contemplating the serious issues raised by the Men's Rights movement

The quantum physics of men's rights

What is the point of that article even

Brb writing a super amazing article going to call it "sometimes people accused of crimes are not actually guilty of the crimes they are accused of but you know, not super often" it's going to be a real potboiler.

it's actually a very good article. it's a sensitive topic, but it's hard to argue against making the issue more evidence-based. assuming she's a reputable academic who's done an actual literature review, at the very least it's good to be familiar with the data

She's actually a researcher for the nutso Cato Institute and contributing editor for the even more nutso far-right libertarian Reason magazine who has spent years taking isolated cases of unproven or false allegations and spinning them into a war-on-men narrative so take the statistics with bucketloads of salt.

Hang on, don't you think we should give this anti-feminist concern troll a fair hearing

no
but maybe idk we might not laud feminist trolls quite so militantly the whole time n'est pas

oh yeah man all the militant lauding, that's got to stop

agreed

^ straw mens rights activist

http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341

that is wonderful

<3 a vagrant

she is wonderful

More than a quarter-century ago, feminist legal theorist Catharine MacKinnon wrote that “feminism is built on believing women’s accounts of sexual use and abuse by men”; today, Jessica Valenti urges us to “believe victims en masse,” because only then will we recognize the true prevalence of sexual assault. But a de facto presumption of guilt in alleged sexual offenses is as dangerous as a presumption of guilt in any crime, and for the same reasons: It upends the foundations on which our system of justice rests and creates a risk of ruining innocent lives.

So (your, my, police officers') taking women's accounts of rape seriously and finding them worth investigating and prosecuting the accused = presumption of guilt.

Taking accusations seriously undermines the foundations of the justice system.

The panel where one is on the ceiling and the other is slithering under the bed is almost unbearably good.

Avatar
StarDustTyping • 8 hours ago

Since they decided to be sexist over their magazine selection, not one of my mates shops there. I'm guessing we aren't alone. Plus all the females they sacrificed us for left tesco for aldi and lidle.
Tesco could have filled their shelves with football, gaming and car mags but they just chose to boot out male mags and by extension males.
They are getting what they deserve.

XD

idk shd we even give easy targets the time of day tho

the hard targets are so difficult to find though

that was from the comments below a telegraph piece on the tesco collapse btw

Tbf that's as good an example of the serious issues raised by the men's rights movement as most of what's been posted itt

ftr way more real rapes end in acquittal than false charges make trial.

― imago, Friday, 19 September 2014 18:10 (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

How do they count such things? Specifically the former?

I mean you can make a purely mathematical argument for that. There must be at least an order of magnitude (probably more than one, but the argument works with one) more true rape accusations than false or fabricated ones. Even if 100% of rape accusations went to trial (they don't), 100% of false rape accusations ended in acquittal for the suspect, and just 10% of rapists were acquitted (it's more than that), you'd have as many freed rapists as falsely accused ones.

what does imago's point mean for the blackstone ratio?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/23/showbiz/celebrity-news-gossip/emma-watson-speech-nude-photos-threat/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

wrong thread i think

wanted to post that in the leaked nude photos thread but i couldn't find it anymore, still think this is a good thread. 4chan is the worst place.

if 4chan had emma watson nudes, they'd be posted already. those guys are obsessed w/ her.

wasn't sure if this thread was right either but since it was kind of a reaction to her calling on men to stand w/women, i think it's kinda relevant to a degree?

this is extremely creepy/scary/wrong: http://www.emmayouarenext.com/

(safe for work as of september 23rd)

"lol" marketing
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/21909/1/emma-watson-nude-photo-leak-outed-as-viral-marketing-hoax

idk who is trolling who at any point in this but it's all about the clicks like every other fucking thing on the internet

lol suppose you could call this a serious issue raised by the men's rights movement

Apparently the marketing company is also a hoax, created in part by this guy:

http://youtu.be/wVg1q0WkL_I

The emma watson harassment is revolting. Part of me wishes anonymity didn't exist on the internet and everyone had to stand by their words and actions. I know this would have undermined my james franco project but it seems like it would be a better system. How can we fight racist, sexist, and homophobic speech if nobody is held accountable?

Another, truer part of me thinks anonymity needs to be an option as it's been used in the past to promote marginalized, necessary viewpoints and also can be a useful literary tool. Still, it seems fruitless to constantly be pointing out how hateful people are being and then having them double down on their hatefulness in response.

I know this would have undermined my james franco project

FP

On the one hand, Internet anonymity has been used to harass and intimidate women, minorities and non-straight people for years.

On the other hand, Treship had this James Franco project going that he thought was cool.

Still, it seems fruitless to constantly be pointing out how hateful people are being and then having them double down on their hatefulness in response.

post that effortlessly summarizes etc

Yeah not for nothing but that's pretty much normal life.

I mean a world of things you could have pointed to and you went for your Franco project

sonned in a treeship ban

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/09/false_rape_accusations_why_must_be_pretend_they_never_happen.html

When I was 16 a female classmate falsely accused me of sexual assault. It was a painful experience. I was eventually cleared. Her testimony changed, no one corroborated her story (she claimed it was public and happened during school), and she eventually admitted to perjury. She transferred to another school, went to college, and is successful. I was embarrassed and ashamed. I’m still embarrassed and ashamed. Why would someone try and wreck an anonymous person’s (we hadn’t spoken and I was shocked she knew my name) life? What if she succeeded? I don’t know. It’s still confusing and horrible. Nonetheless, I don’t own a fedora and I think most of this crap is crap.

I regret writing that

I think it must take a lot of courage to share that kind of thing in a public forum. I've had acquaintances share similar stories with me in private. Even though I'm attuned to the issue, I can't help but continue to wonder whether they actually committed the crime that they were accused of (and exonerated for).

There's so much internet harassment that is not anonymous, just disconnected. twitter is the prime example in that people will respond to things under their own names to strangers in revolting ways. When there's only a passing familiarity and the perceived ego boost outweighs concern for other people (because you don't know those people), people don't seem to care if they're anonymous until the backlash becomes real.

etaeoe, that is absolutely revolting what you went through, but more than anything it sounds like it was a cry for help on the part of your accuser and you were the completely undeserving victim of her acting out. I doubt she thought of you positively or negatively, just anonymously, and without really thinking of you as a person.

Thinking of others as people who are on an equal stance with your own agency no matter how different they may be in goals or outlook is difficult for the most self-confident, actualized people. For people who don't think much of their own humanity, it's worse.

eateoe, I hope you don't still regret writing that.

There's a controversy on librarian twitter (yes there is a librarian twitter) right now because a dude who speaks at a lot of library conferences is suing two female librarians who accused him on twitter of being a known sexual harasser for defamation. The women seem to be getting a lot of support (financial and emotional) but now some people are saying they feel forced to support them or face being ostracized. http://blogs.princeton.edu/librarian/2014/09/suing-librarians-damages/

It seems like if most campus rapes are happening in peer groups that encourage it, that's pretty useful information that we might want to somehow employ in preventing campus rapes. I don't really see how recognizing that is dangerous -- I'm not letting off the hook the "artsy" type who is also a rapist, nor suggesting that college me never had to check his own behavior just because he didn't live with a bunch of "bros." Everyone should learn where the lines are, everyone should be discouraged from these behaviors.

― 'arry Goldman (Hurting 2), Monday, August 18, 2014 1:04 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Dan, I think the atmosphere at my gigantic state U was probably a little different from *your school.*

― 'arry Goldman (Hurting 2), Monday, August 18, 2014 1:04 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And yet, there is still a pervasive rape problem on the campus of my school. It's almost as if there's a deeper problem here that can't just be blamed on the existence of fraternities...

― Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Monday, August 18, 2014 1:13 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Reviving this topic because I saw this, which says that fraternity brothers are 3x more likely than their non-frat counterparts to commit rape on campus:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/24/rape-sexual-assault-ban-frats

I don't agree with the premise of "getting rid of frats" to solve the problem, because I don't really think the problem is the existence of frats but the culture within some frats -- a culture that can be found elsewhere too but just seems to exist significantly more often in frats. I think frats can be changed rather than destroyed as an institution, and plenty of frats already don't fit the mold that needs to be changed in the first place.

But I do think the point I was originally trying to make stands -- rape is significantly more likely when a certain ugly kind of male groupthink takes over and encourages it, and targeting that would help reduce rape.

I'm too lazy to read the article - how much controlling was done for the potential overlap between "belongs to a frat" and "is a member of one of the major men's sports teams" (football, basketball, baseball, lacrosse, soccer)?

none? who cares? toxic male groupthink can exist in frats just as easily as on sports teams but the latter are harder to ban and arguably have more value. ban frats.

toxic male groupthink exists in males