thread for contemplating the serious issues raised by the Men's Rights movement

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stab narf

a lot of posters itt have given some really great anecdotes to counterweigh the data hurting's describing

reverse sexism!!

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/09/29/hollywoods-attack-on-men-will-industry-change-its-gender-stereotyping-following/

http://deadspin.com/the-future-of-the-culture-wars-is-here-and-its-gamerga-1646145844

There is a reason why, in all the Gamergate rhetoric, you hear the echoes of every other social war staged in the last 30 years: overly politically correct, social-justice warriors, the media elite, gamers are not a monolith. There is also a reason why so much of the rhetoric amounts to a vigorous argument that Being a gamer doesn't mean you're sexist, racist, and stupid—a claim no one is making. Co-opting the language and posture of grievance is how members of a privileged class express their belief that the way they live shouldn't have to change, that their opponents are hypocrites and perhaps even the real oppressors. This is how you get St. Louisans sincerely explaining that Ferguson protestors are the real racists, and how you end up with an organized group of precisely the same video game enthusiasts to whom an entire industry is catering honestly believing that they're an oppressed minority. From this kind of ideological fortification, you can stage absolutely whatever campaigns you deem necessary.

The best solution to that would be to actually cover the gaming world in a way that is cognizant of non-gamers. I have no idea what goes on in gaming - just that the graphics hurt my eyes. I guess I worry that young people won't learn anything from it, but I don't believe in being alarmist about it.

I'm having some trouble parsing all three of those sentences tbh.

ppl interested in reading more about #gamergate, who may otherwise not read ILG, should know that there's a long, ongoing thread on the topic over there:
Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?

i'm not sure that #gamergate has anything to do w/ men's issues and so this is probably not the best thread for it - esp considering it has a devoted thread already

Even a cursory glance at the Deadspin article demonstrates that self-described "gamer" resentment is p much 100% about men's right issues (ie the right for everything to be all about them all the time forever). Bullying the industry and the rest of the world into complying with their priorities by using threats of violence against women, educational institutions, and the general population is also perfectly in line with how disaffected, disengaged, emotionally stunted mostly young white dudes lash out violently and leave manifestos that prove their alignment with MRAs generally.

by that token the tea party + IS are also men's rights phenomena

the serious issues raised by Men's Rights movement don't include "the right for everything to be all about them for all the time forever." they include things like higher fatality rate in male occupations, the predominant use of young males in armies, disdain for maleness in popular culture, court prejudice against fathers in custody battles -- ie actual serious issues that men face!

I have seen gamergate dudes explicitly say things like "Gaming is one of the last spaces guys have left and they're trying to ruin it." If that's not MRA talk I don't know what is.

it's just not serious MRA talk. it's insane talk.

MRA/antifeminist/"red pill" scenes were the first to blow this thing up, they are deeply implicated and their language is all over the "movement"

by that token the tea party + IS are also men's rights phenomena

lol yes?

yr going to force me to start a new thread that's just called men issues or something aren't u

"the predominant use of young males in armies" <--- this is not a serious issue; the serious issue is the exclusion of women in armies and the misuse of military might throughout the entirety of human history, but the fact that militaries use young men isn't a serious problem by itself

also in order for "disdain for maleness in popular culture" to be an actual issue, you need to define "maleness" in a pretty insulting way

Also it takes chutzpah of a major fashion to have purposefully, for decades, kept women out of (or discouraged them from working in) high risk jobs or front-line military roles, then to complain that you're the ones at risk in the workplace and at war.

disdain for maleness in popular culture

I can't even.

thread for contemplating the serious issues raised by dudes who spend 90% of their waking hours disengaged from reality

posts that effortlessly etc

It hadn't occurred to me when I clicked on this thread that people would actually be discussing this self-evidently moronic concept seriously.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 19 November 2013 16:00 (10 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nobody is discussing it, we're trying to discern why deems made it into a thing

― just got dope thai food (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Tuesday, 19 November 2013 16:01 (10 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

don't get me wrong, there's nothing i dream of more than addressing phil d on ilx but i'm gonna pass. i'll probably start just a plain 'men's issues' thread (i'll even attach some kind of DNRIYHM) the next time i have something relevant to post or whatever

and those of you who believe there is no such thing as a 'men's issue' or a problem facing men specifically in society can note yr objections here or whatever

have fun talking to Treeship

i always do

i'll even attach some kind of DNRIYHM) the next time i have something relevant to post or whatever

I'm pretty sure reddit still exists tho.

Mo/r/dy

The best solution to that would be to actually cover the gaming world in a way that is cognizant of non-gamers. I have no idea what goes on in gaming - just that the graphics hurt my eyes. I guess I worry that young people won't learn anything from it, but I don't believe in being alarmist about it.

― Threat Assessment Division (I M Losted), Wednesday, October 15, 2014 4:01 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

A friend and I briefly planned to do a weekly radio segment covering games from an explicitly left-wing, anti-oppressive, anti-capitalist position--along with discussion of the cognitive dissonance of ""critical consumption"" etc--but we eventually decided there'd be very little audience for it, and that the last thing the world needed was two more dudes talking about video games.

O no Mordy will not reply to me whatever will I do without his ~deep insights~.

I mean sorry that's dickish but there are at least two trivially obvious answers I can think of to the problem of young men doing all the dying in wars: Fight fewer wars and let more women do things.

hey mordy fight fewer wars

like I mean that as srs advice

I keep reading MRA as "NRA"...

I am not really clear that this thread ever did what in said in the title, though, it's not just suddenly drifted away from it? In many ways it worked best as "contemplating the serious issues not raised by the Men's Rights movement (as that would involve compromise (with reality))"

The thing about "predominantly males" in armies is that it's usually a disingenuous move by MRA people to bring that up, i.e. what they REALLY mean is "Oh yeah, well if you want equality, then how come men are the ones out fighting and dying?" The same people are not actually advocating for an egalitarian military. Same thing with the people who always bring up female-on-male sexual assault or domestic violence -- it's not that these things don't exist, but the people who most often bring them up ONLY seem to care about them in the context of feeling somehow victimized by discussion of male-on-female rape or violence in the media.

Like anyone who thinks having a primarily male army is free to go out and advocate for putting more women in the army, and anyone who thinks female-on-male domestic violence or sexual assault is a serious problem is free to advocate against that too, but somehow this only ever occurs in the context of opposing protections for women.

*thinks having a primarily male army is a problem

O no Mordy will not reply to me whatever will I do without his ~deep insights~.

― bippity bup at the hotel california (Phil D.), Wednesday, October 15, 2014 11:20 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I mean sorry that's dickish but there are at least two trivially obvious answers I can think of to the problem of young men doing all the dying in wars: Fight fewer wars and let more women do things.

― bippity bup at the hotel california (Phil D.), Wednesday, October 15, 2014 11:22 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

god you are so fucking stupid, stick to being a simpsons character 24/7 instead of calling out somewhat intelligent posters so i can go back to ignoring you completely.

^ you never seem to learn, despite being given many clues. verbal abuse is not appropriate. flagged.

Flagging you for flagging that

smile when you say that, treesh, because I have to assume you were joking

god you are so fucking stupid, stick to being a simpsons character 24/7 instead of calling out somewhat intelligent posters so i can go back to ignoring you completely.

― mattresslessness, Wednesday, 15 October 2014 19:59 (13 minutes ago)

✓

and those of you who believe there is no such thing as a 'men's issue' or a problem facing men specifically in society can note yr objections here or whatever

― Mordy, Wednesday, October 15, 2014 10:54 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also why the fuck is this so difficult to comprehend? swear people on here treat this shit like the rest of america apparently does when they see the word 'ebola'.

kneejerk reaction to 'men's issues' from men who are ostensibly feminists is hypocritical and rests on the same ideological construction of gender roles that they want to position themselves beyond. a more egalitarian situation w/r/t gender has much to do with men recognizing and helping other men to recognize the unfairness they face in a patriarchal domineering system and working to not assume these roles as constituted, to find relational health and sanity.

^^^^^^^^^

Flagging you for flagging that

― Treeship, Wednesday, 15 October 2014 20:05 (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

✓

I haven't been paying that much attention for a while and now I don't even know whose sock is whose anymore.

this thread is an abomination that should have been closed ages ago

take her, dude

and those of you who believe there is no such thing as a 'men's issue' or a problem facing men specifically in society can note yr objections here or whatever

― Mordy, Wednesday, October 15, 2014 10:54 AM (2 hours ago)

just because the whole thing is wounded and risible when framed that way, it just make the petitioners look like sad fuckboys and undermines whatever cause they might have

People might be perhaps less kneejerk if they had the slightest confidence that petitioners were even a tiny bit interested in "a more egalitarian situation w/r/t gender."