made it clear nick got the partner he deserved.
to risk repeating myself: i think Amy's villainy is far too outsized for that to fit. really? this guy who cheated on his wife and is kind of uncaring and selfish deserves... a psychopathic murderer for a wife?
the film has all kinds of signposts that Nick is not really an asshole. his sister is devoted to him and he to her, he seems to have loved his mother deeply, he interacts in a not-implausible and recognizably human and confused way to what's happening to him.... in other words he's a flawed but basically sympathetic character. he activates our structures of sympathy, to be a bit pretentious about it. Amy, at least once the main twist is divulged, does no such thing, except perhaps in fleeting and ambiguous moments. even before the twist is revealed, her line readings have a pointedly artificial quality that probably sets a lot of viewers on edge even before they learn her true nature.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 8 October 2014 18:02 (nine years ago) link
yea its interesting that one can get to that conclusion re: nick getting the partner he deserved. this is a spouse who elaborately plotted to have him receive the death penalty in response to his affair (and possible other neglect and/or minor abuse). and i obv say that not condoning that behavior by nick but think abt it in retrospect w/ what we know abt Amy. plus, he was ready to ask her for a divorce the morning she disappeared which is self-serving but also the grown-up thing to finally do
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 8 October 2014 18:44 (nine years ago) link
i also forgot that the detail of amy stealing casey wilsons urine to feign pregnancy recollected to me the roth novel 'my life as a man' which i read recently & would be p interesting to contrast the relationship there w/ that of nick & amy, to a point
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 8 October 2014 18:48 (nine years ago) link
i STILL don't know if he ever pushed her nor if he really wanted a baby or wanted to get divorced and i've read a million views this way and that on the subject. no-one who hasn't read the book seems to know one way or the other! have to see this again.
― piscesx, Wednesday, 8 October 2014 18:54 (nine years ago) link
yeah obv on the surface their crimes are disproportionate, which is sort of why you can read it is a dark comedy. the man is schlubby, passive, unfaithful, probably harmless (but with the lurking thread of violence)--basically an everyman, only useful as the dancing bear referenced by the v/o. the woman is a ridiculously controlling, active agent, willing to kill to propel herself to the best situation she can reasonably get to, total psycho--and the movie is basically arguing that they deserve each other.
the fact that he's nice to his mom and sister is arguably more damning--he can respect women if they're not his actual partner.
i guess i just did not have nearly as much sympathy for nick as you guys--he's a loser, decent in his 20s but backsliding hard, senses only coming alive for booze and outside pussy.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 8 October 2014 19:06 (nine years ago) link
and outside pussy.
cmon he asked the detective to make sure and feed his cat
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 8 October 2014 19:18 (nine years ago) link
pretty common experience
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 October 2014 19:19 (nine years ago) link
re: whether or not he was everviolent, the way he throttles her near the end of the movie added a nice jolt of queasy ambiguity to that question
― Simon H., Wednesday, 8 October 2014 19:22 (nine years ago) link
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, October 8, 2014 3:19 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah for sure.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 8 October 2014 19:25 (nine years ago) link
re: whether or not he was everviolent, the way he throttles her near the end of the movie added a nice jolt of queasy ambiguity to that question― Simon H., Wednesday, October 8, 2014 2:22 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Simon H., Wednesday, October 8, 2014 2:22 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
right, but like i said i think most of the rest of the film mitigates against you thinking of him as the kind of person the diary made him out to be... or even close.
i think Nick's sister is a key character, at least in the film. her unswerving devotion to her brother, even though at times it seems undeserved, still is a strong pointer to the audience that Nick is not, at bottom, the sort of person who "deserves" the trap that Amy has set for him. her warm presence in the film—and she's in a lot of it—is kind of like Affleck's evident devotion to his cat: it's a moral signifier, an indication that Nick is a human being, a flawed one, but someone who basically doesn't deserve the trap he's fallen into. and the trap itself, once it's revealed, unlocks a very Hitchcockian response, I think. I think most of us empathize with his situation, even if we don't admire or "identify with" his character—we still experience anxiety and fear and, eventually, anger on his behalf.
I think it's key, though, that someone going into this movie "blind" might experience a similar empathy for Amy, at least up to the point when it's revealed she wasn't killed after all. and perhaps that empathy—and the corresponding antipathy with or questions about Nick—carries through, to some extent, to the film's conclusion, leaving the ending more ambiguous. but since I knew from the beginning that she was a manipulative psycho, my empathy was with Nick all the way.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 8 October 2014 19:32 (nine years ago) link
how much respect is due to a partner who is a manipulative sociopath? i think its v hard to reliably know much definitively abt their marriage, really, and i do like that ambiguity. we do learn independently that amy got her former bf brought up on rape charges seemingly at no fault of that dudes so idk it's hard to see a huge percentage of nick's complicity in amy's plan
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 8 October 2014 19:48 (nine years ago) link
xp yea & margot from the outset dislikes amy we're told, sez something like just cuz i don't ever want to be around her doesn't mean i want her missing, etc
nick did bring to the relationship being a maxim or GQ writer or w/e he had done in nyc so you know what maybe he is deserving of all this
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 8 October 2014 20:02 (nine years ago) link
margo's dislike of Amy—which long preceded the events depicted in the film—is a strong signal that Something Is Wrong With Amy, even before we know that for sure.
his being a writer for "men's magazines" is surely one of those topic allusions that the film throws out as bait for thinkpiece writers etc.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 8 October 2014 20:13 (nine years ago) link
topicAL
I saw the preview and the whole thing was like OH MY GOD he's being ACCUSED of KILLING HIS WIFE and IT SURE SEEMS LIKE HE DID IT, and there is only one resolution to that question - either he didn't do it, and it's a colossal mistake by the cops, or he actually did and he's a psychopath, and neither one seem very interesting
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 8 October 2014 20:53 (nine years ago) link
I can't ruin it for you but Oswald is involved.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 October 2014 20:54 (nine years ago) link
I saw the preview and the whole thing was like OH MY GOD he's being ACCUSED of KILLING HIS WIFE and IT SURE SEEMS LIKE HE DID IT, and there is only one resolution to that question - either he didn't do it, and it's a colossal mistake by the cops, or he actually did and he's a psychopath, and neither one seem very interesting― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, October 8, 2014 3:53 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, October 8, 2014 3:53 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
wrong
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 8 October 2014 21:18 (nine years ago) link
also it seems so weird to dismiss a film on that basis. there are good procedurals and bad procedurals. and this movie, for what it's worth, is a lot loopier than either.
i love the idea that because he loves his cat Nick's an alright guy
http://fecktv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/blofeld1.jpg
― piscesx, Thursday, 9 October 2014 00:47 (nine years ago) link
I'm sure the cat was meant to symbolize something but I'll be damned if I know what it is
― Simon H., Thursday, 9 October 2014 00:48 (nine years ago) link
HEY GUYS I SAW THE TRAILER FOR THIS AND SOLVED THE ENDING AND THE ENDING WAS DUMB
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 October 2014 00:52 (nine years ago) link
damn there are so many movies with cliched pat endings out there, especially when i dream them up after watching the trailer
― da croupier, Thursday, 9 October 2014 00:56 (nine years ago) link
The sequel will be about Tyler Perry's next case.
― the man with the black wigs (Eazy), Thursday, 9 October 2014 01:06 (nine years ago) link
PLEASE MAKE IT SO
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 October 2014 01:13 (nine years ago) link
I'd so watch TANNER BOLT'S MURDER MYSTERIES
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 October 2014 01:14 (nine years ago) link
yeah, tyler perry was pretty charismatic in this
― I dunno. (amateurist), Thursday, 9 October 2014 01:32 (nine years ago) link
Not to undermine his achievement, but the movie sets up him to walk away with it.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 October 2014 01:33 (nine years ago) link
The Gummi Bear scene might be the movie's best.
― the man with the black wigs (Eazy), Thursday, 9 October 2014 01:40 (nine years ago) link
yeah definitely. i wonder also if that scene reflects DF's attitude to actors. famously Jake Gyllenhal dissed him for doing endless takes on Zodiac and DF said this in response “I hate earnestness in performance.. usually by Take 17 the earnestness is gone.”. totes reminded me of the copper chucking sweeties at Affleck's head until he got the most 'natural' performance for the TV camera.
― piscesx, Thursday, 9 October 2014 01:54 (nine years ago) link
"i think a film made differently could sustain the idea that even though Amy was using the diary to frame Nick for murder, much of it was true--that he really was an abusive fuck of a husband. i think that the choices the film makes--casting, editing, acting--all sort of mitigate against this reading. i think there is a moment in the film where we really might wonder--when it's revealed that he's been lying to his sister about the affair he's having. but everything that happens subsequently in the film (save for that last aggressive shove) works to close down this possibility."
Should mention here that the book does this too (although neither character is exactly likable only one is a monster and whatever Nick might have done it's pretty clear Amy's actions--with everyone pretty much--completely lack proportionality).
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Thursday, 9 October 2014 13:47 (nine years ago) link
continnuum of books every damn motherfucker reading on london underground: girl with the dragon etc -> 'One Day' by David Nicholls -> this ― intelligent, expressive males within the greater metropolitan (Bananaman Begins), Saturday, October 4, 2014 8:17 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkpeople be readin' popular books!
people be readin' popular books!
so I guess this is how it feels... to be pwned.
― intelligent, expressive males within the greater metropolitan (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 9 October 2014 15:55 (nine years ago) link
http://17rg073sukbm1lmjk9jrehb643.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Screen-Shot-2014-08-06-at-9.22.42-AM.png
from a recap of a Q&A fincher did after a screening last night
Fincher mentioned The King of Comedy as a major influence on his work, and the influence of Scorsese’s pitch-black ’80s comedy about notoriety and narcissism can be seen all over Gone Girl, a pitch-black comedy about notoriety and narcissism. Fincher brought up the sequence in The King of Comedy when delusional aspiring comedian Rupert Pupkin, played by Robert De Niro, brings his girlfriend to the Jerry Lewis character’s house uninvited. Fincher talked about how much he loves the combination of fear and uncomfortable laughter evoked by Pupkin’s surprise drop-in. Is Amy kind of a Rupert Pupkin? She just might be. He said, “I want to see arguments between characters where I agree with both of them.”
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 9 October 2014 18:57 (nine years ago) link
“I want to see arguments between characters where I agree with both of them.”
My approach to life tbh
― Re-Make/Re-Model, Thursday, 9 October 2014 20:27 (nine years ago) link
I think that was from the same Q&A
So who's side is the director on, anyway? "I root for Rosamund. There are parts of the movie where I go, oh yeah, 'Go Amy.' I love Amy. I love seeing her planning out when she's going to take her own life. I think that's hilarious."
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 9 October 2014 21:51 (nine years ago) link
I wonder if Fincher undestands the film he made is not that funny? Sure, anyone saying it is not satisfying to see Affleck being a huge boob are lying to themselves. However between that and the film being thoroughly funny there is a huge gap that Tyler Perry and that dumb cop couldn't fill. Thank god the films as other strengths and by the end I'd say the satire worked for me (I'm not married).
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 9 October 2014 22:07 (nine years ago) link
last 45 minutes pulled some pretty good laughs out of the audience I was in tbh
― resulting post (rogermexico.), Thursday, 9 October 2014 22:12 (nine years ago) link
So who's side is the director on, anyway? "I root for Rosamund. There are parts of the movie where I go, oh yeah, 'Go Amy.' I love Amy. I love seeing her planning out when she's going to take her own life. I think that's hilarious."― Van Horn Street, Thursday, October 9, 2014 5:51 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yea this is a p bizarre thing to say
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 9 October 2014 22:27 (nine years ago) link
the situation maaybe is blackly funny but recognize that youre cracking up abt a dsm-classifiable mentally ill person
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 9 October 2014 22:29 (nine years ago) link
Q&As are the worst, mainly.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 9 October 2014 22:37 (nine years ago) link
i think fincher likes to say shit that sounds real badass, i'm not sure the film he made really does anything to get the audience to side with amy. certainly pike's performance doesn't really work to ingratiate her, except perhaps in a few moments when she is hiding out with the hillbillies.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Thursday, 9 October 2014 23:09 (nine years ago) link
I basically had the same reaction to amy as fincher did. Her calendar was hilarious.
― ryan, Thursday, 9 October 2014 23:19 (nine years ago) link
sure, it was funny... but were you "rooting" for her?
― I dunno. (amateurist), Thursday, 9 October 2014 23:40 (nine years ago) link
i guess the answer to that might be complicated. there were probably moments--literally moments--in parts of the film when you're rooting for her to, at least, not off herself. but on balance, and certainly by the end of the film, i think it's fair to say that the film works to align our sympathies largely if not exclusively with nick. if fincher thinks he's made a film that works otherwise i think he's mistaken.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Thursday, 9 October 2014 23:42 (nine years ago) link
I found it pretty funny tbh
― Simon H., Friday, 10 October 2014 00:14 (nine years ago) link
if you don't find a mini-sticky note reading "kill self?" to be funny i don't even know.
― call all destroyer, Friday, 10 October 2014 00:51 (nine years ago) link
otm, there were sick laffs all over this movie
― warning, #4 can't be unseen (WilliamC), Friday, 10 October 2014 01:20 (nine years ago) link
― johnny crunch, Thursday, October 9, 2014
not sure if serious
― resulting post (rogermexico.), Friday, 10 October 2014 04:55 (nine years ago) link
― call all destroyer, Thursday, October 9, 2014 7:51 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
who is denying that it's funny?
― I dunno. (amateurist), Friday, 10 October 2014 18:56 (nine years ago) link
I am. A few chuckles here and there and a (fantastic) satire tone are not enough for me to classify the film as being 'funny'. Maybe I have another sense of humor.
― Van Horn Street, Friday, 10 October 2014 22:20 (nine years ago) link