I thought they said we were at or past the halfway point on the slate spoiler episode last week, maybe I'm wrong. even that feels like a lot more episodes.
But the general thrust of the lawyer's advice - at least as Sarah K presented it seemed to be "forget about making Adnan's story add up - what matters is forensic evidence and an alternate suspect/theory."
A few mentions of "a serial killer" being the real culprit in similar cases, something that had not been floated here before.
There was also the suggestion that Don, Hae's new boyfriend, hadn't been looked at closely enough - but it was dropped as quickly as it was raised. It did occur to me that the show has been pretty hasty about ruling him out so far, especially given the time they spent on what seem like obvious red herrings like Neighbor Boy and the streaker who found the body. I predict after the Jay detour next week, we'll come back to the Innocence Project findings re: fibre and more on Don.
― Brio2, Thursday, 6 November 2014 20:03 (nine years ago) link
The slate podcast I heard yesterday brings up a great point about how she chooses to disclose some people's full names and doesn't for others (including Jay). I can't imagine that's totally arbitrary.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 6 November 2014 20:10 (nine years ago) link
in interviews she says they were vaguely shooting for a dozen episodes but that isn't set in stone
anyway SHUT UP this episode was really good & interesting & it was kinda moving how cathartic it sounded for SK, & the rearrangement of puzzle pieces - what about dna! - felt really valuable. i wish i knew when all of this had taken place; i don't know if six months ago they made efforts to dig up misplaced evidence in a warehouse or if two weeks ago they put in a RFI on stray beerbottles & a dude is craning his neck to look through a microscope right now
i think knowing a little more about what this series is - they're still researching it, it could go either way, it's in progress - helps, like it removes the weird extra-textual true detective thing of creating additional suspense on whether the show will be about the process or about the result. just vibing with a stressed detective is really fascinating & novel & engaging, i think.
hyped for jay detour.
― schlump, Thursday, 6 November 2014 20:38 (nine years ago) link
ha now you're making me like it
did it feel genuine to you when she was airing her doubts about Adnan to the lawyer? It just felt a little manipulative, like she was putting herself exactly where she wanted the audience's heads to be at this point in the narrative. But maybe I'm being cynical and she's actually really right there with us. anyway, nitpicking, it's fucking great.
― Brio2, Thursday, 6 November 2014 20:48 (nine years ago) link
if "they're still researching it, it could go either way" is really true - that's a hell of a tight rope to walk though, I wonder how people will react if it has no satisfying ending
― Brio2, Thursday, 6 November 2014 20:52 (nine years ago) link
she is not gaming afaict
really worth reading a bunch of the interviews - slate, i think, & the NYer - w/SK to hear her talk about that kinda thing. she says she's a good enough reporter to deal with the conclusion, whether it's ambiguous or whatever. i feel like it's already strong enough to justify its focus, like it's so illuminating to be confronted with just the machinery of trials & convictions & burdens of proof & nebulous differences between accounts, &c.
did anybody watch the staircase? it came up in the NYer piece as a comparable project, it's really fascinating.
― schlump, Thursday, 6 November 2014 20:56 (nine years ago) link
It's kind of the only really similar thing, right? A serialized week-by-week true crime thing? I loved the Staircase, but something about Serial has grabbed me even more... maybe it's just that I have to wait for it every week, while I binge-watched The Staircase
― Brio2, Thursday, 6 November 2014 21:55 (nine years ago) link
I wonder if Serial was at all inspired by TV like True Detective or the last season of Breaking Bad - both huge shows from the last year that reminded people how much fun it is to experience something together with everyone else over many weeks instead of bingeing
― Brio2, Thursday, 6 November 2014 21:59 (nine years ago) link
yeah. it's p telling that she sez her fav piece of tape is the girl @ the end of this ep who sounds so exasperated in sentence fragments that none of it makes sense
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 13 November 2014 13:23 (nine years ago) link
anyway, could be interesting what adnan sez when Koenig asks him abt jay's friends saying he went along cuz adnan threatened stephanie
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 13 November 2014 13:24 (nine years ago) link
part of me cant get over cathy's? I think description of adnan @ her party & her description of his behavior, asking how do you stop being high, right? and needing to go do something important. has Koenig asked abt this party? I cant recall
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 13 November 2014 13:30 (nine years ago) link
That call seems like a total red herring - even if A is totally innocent, it would make sense that kids were calling each other saying that Hae was missing and the cops are looking for her, and Adnan could be freaked out about being high and worried about talking to the cops.
― Brio2, Thursday, 13 November 2014 14:22 (nine years ago) link
yea def possible, and the host's recollection of adnans strange behavior being influenced by him later being convicted
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 13 November 2014 14:27 (nine years ago) link
But this episode sure does make it seem like Adnan did it.I think the details of Jay's chronology will never add up - but the fundamentals (what Koenig has referred to as "the spine of his story") are unshaken. Jay admits to giving different versions of the day's events, and the prosecution may well have put forward a very flawed version of the day's events - but it doesn't seem that weird that a scared stoner high school who participated in the aftermath of a murder told a bunch of lies on his way to telling the truth.
― Brio2, Thursday, 13 November 2014 14:29 (nine years ago) link
SPOILERS (should we ask mods to put a spoiler warning in the title of the thread?)
Also interesting in this week's show was Jay's friend Chris who gave a whole new version of events (the pool hall story) and the the whole new motive for Jay to help Adnan (Adnan's threats to Jay's girlfriend Stephanie). Odd that it seems like Jay never told cops the threats story, as far as we know anyway.
― Brio2, Thursday, 13 November 2014 14:41 (nine years ago) link
is one of these gonna drop thanksgiving morning?
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 13 November 2014 15:31 (nine years ago) link
Totally wasn't expecting them to actually ambush Jay like that. Seems out of character with how passive the investigation has been up to this point.
― Johnny Fever, Thursday, 13 November 2014 18:33 (nine years ago) link
Yeah totally.
I kind of had a few seconds of "why am I even bothering to listen to this then" when she said he ultimately declined the interview. There's so much only he can answer.
― Brio2, Thursday, 13 November 2014 18:41 (nine years ago) link
latest episode is still banging around in my head. the "all facts are friendly" vs. "bad evidence" bit was really fascinating and maybe the core of what this show is ultimately going to be about.
― Brio2, Friday, 14 November 2014 16:24 (nine years ago) link
i was already feeling pretty sure that adnan did it (separate tho from the question of whether he should've been convicted) but this last ep made me feel like 99% sure.
― Mordy, Friday, 14 November 2014 16:25 (nine years ago) link
im interested in the jay/Stephanie/adnan dynamic
― johnny crunch, Friday, 14 November 2014 16:59 (nine years ago) link
yeah, sure does seem like Adnan did it.
biggest lingering questions to me are around why he brought Jay into it at all, and if Jay had a bigger role than he's admitted.
― Brio2, Friday, 14 November 2014 17:23 (nine years ago) link
this episode convinced me of it too, but i still think he should have been found not guilty. was totally annoyed by attorney's cross-examination style. i think he brought jay in for the reason jay said, that he was perceived to be "the criminal element" at school. i don't think jay's different stories mean much. i think he was just scared.
― flatizza (harbl), Saturday, 15 November 2014 00:49 (nine years ago) link
After this week's ep I am def more sympathetic to Jay... i dropped my suspicions that Adnan is hiding more than he's letting on a while back but now they're back in a big way.
i think the venn diagram of jay & adnan has a big swampy ??? in the crossover & goddammit i want to know what it is
and i am with schlump, i found last week's ep v cathartic & exciting & useful. a good way-marker on the road to new questions etc
― difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 15 November 2014 03:54 (nine years ago) link
i just binged-listened to 7 eps in a row - this is so engaging! although i'm having a really hard time keep track of everything.
to me, so far, the most stand-out thing has been:when koenig tells adnan that the main draw has been him and what a "nice guy" he is etc. and he's goes off at her, kinda incoherently, but the next day really forcefully explains how being perceived as a nice guy is the least of his concerns - he wants someone to point out all the discrepancies in the case that led to him being convicted. this is what has meaning leaning away from him being guilty right now.
unless he's an actual psychopath, there really doesn't seem to be a believable motive for Hae's murder - especially such a premeditated one.
― just1n3, Saturday, 15 November 2014 07:38 (nine years ago) link
*me, not meaning
― just1n3, Saturday, 15 November 2014 07:39 (nine years ago) link
guys the most recent episode made me develop a super far-fetched theory! what if some third person committed the murder and threatened Jay to help him cover it up, otherwise he would hurt Stephanie? (naming Adnan would be part of the cover-up) something about the way Jay responded when Koenig went to his house seemed both truthful and evasive to me--like when he said, if Adnan didn't do it, who did? also it seems for real that Stephanie got threatened back then/Jay was worried for her. he said his first thought when he saw Hae's body was how fragile Stephanie is.
this is all cap'n-save-an-adnan of me and probably totally irrational and unlikely, but i am totally taken in by the dude.
― horseshoe, Saturday, 15 November 2014 16:09 (nine years ago) link
also i feel like a creep for listening to this show, but i can't stop
― horseshoe, Saturday, 15 November 2014 16:11 (nine years ago) link
i tried to get my wife to listen so we could discuss but after 5 minutes she was like "i do not want to listen to a show about a murder" and was adamant about how sick it was
― Mordy, Saturday, 15 November 2014 16:15 (nine years ago) link
I think this is an introduction to "true crime" storytelling for a lot of people (me included), so it's understandable that not everyone is on board.
― Johnny Fever, Saturday, 15 November 2014 16:18 (nine years ago) link
yeah so far every time she has said 'I warn you this is upsetting' she has been totally otm, the thing is stomach turning if you aren't used to it.
― Van Horn Street, Saturday, 15 November 2014 16:34 (nine years ago) link
As long as the show has the blessing of the girl's family, I'm ok with it. But I do think it veers slightly into entertainment, and that's not a very comfortable place.
― calstars, Saturday, 15 November 2014 16:47 (nine years ago) link
it makes me realize what a creep i am that this is comparatively pleasant to the stuff i usually dig into :/
― difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 15 November 2014 17:53 (nine years ago) link
ha i was gonna say; i have become #true #crime #guy since this started, watching everything that came up as a point of reference (the staircase, paradise lost, &c), & there's such a difference between serial's kind of take-a-moment preparatory remarks, before something distressing, &, say, the scenes in the staircase where 8x10 glossy photographs of head wounds are passed around a conference table & light-heartedly chuckled over by defence strategists. i feel like the vague allegiance of being semi-embroiled with a weary, inquisitive reporter in serial puts you at a relatively, or at least more successfully, comfortable distance away from the sensation of gawking; that it expends enough of its capital on just reeling in threads about whether people are truthful & how credible evidence can be that you feel sort of more worthy & purposeful when you're hearing about something specifically upsetting, arguably private, &c. there was a really beautiful moment a couple of episodes into this where they played the song that hae had really loved, around the time of her prom, & it had the same effect as the romantic instrumental rockabilly guitar theme in twin peaks, the dreamy, teen-romantic theme we see whenever the guy's on his motorbike. & that's obviously a kind of cool, ear-catching aesthetisisation of something actually pretty depressing, the people involved kind of abstracted into these themes. but it does feel kinda broad enough to get away with it.
thing that was so interesting about the last episode to me was just more squarely having to deal with what lying would mean, given that adnan's so persuasively straight-shooting-seeming & that a guy in a shitty apartment saying he did it also seems credible. it's really hard getting to the stage of inventing weird, circuitous exculpating theories that involve others, because i feel like adnan's persuasiveness is so in step with how much he seems to be just unadornedly telling you how things were that the idea that he's concealing some b-narrative would erase all sense of him being so well-intentioned.
― schlump, Saturday, 15 November 2014 18:21 (nine years ago) link
guys let's start a podcast
― schlump, Saturday, 15 November 2014 18:22 (nine years ago) link
yeah I think my third party murderer theory is about wanting jay and adnan both to be telling the truth somehow.
The description of high school Jay made me like him, too.
― horseshoe, Saturday, 15 November 2014 18:50 (nine years ago) link
big lacrosse fan
― schlump, Saturday, 15 November 2014 18:53 (nine years ago) link
our new podcast is called cereal
― flatizza (harbl), Saturday, 15 November 2014 18:54 (nine years ago) link
this having a dramatic conclusion in which innocence is revealed & justice is done gets a lot of playbutfinding out that adnan was lying would be so incredibly jarring & difficult i think
― schlump, Saturday, 15 November 2014 18:55 (nine years ago) link
ha hajust some internet user friends chewing over the new episode over breakfast every thursdaythe internet's slurpiest podcast
― schlump, Saturday, 15 November 2014 18:56 (nine years ago) link
I finished ep 8 last night, and I'm still not buying that Jay went along with it bc Stephanie was his weakness. But Jay's reaction to being approached by sk and the strength of his response makes him just as believable as Adnan.
Without third party involvement like horseshoe suggests, Adnan as an actual psycho is the only conceivable theory to me.
I am troubled by Jay and his pathological lying - I've known at least 2 ppl like this, who would lie about the weather just for the sake of it.
― just1n3, Saturday, 15 November 2014 19:03 (nine years ago) link
I am more troubled by the position Jay has been put into IF Adnan really did do it. Like, wtf
― difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 15 November 2014 19:22 (nine years ago) link
I wonder why SK has held off so long on talking about Adnan's trials/lawyer. It would make sense if she'd been building a convincing case for Adnan's innocence all along and then showed us how his corrupt lawyer dropped the ball/took a dive, but really she's just given us a bunch of evidence that doesn't seem like cause for a new trial. idk if dropping the "btw his lawyer sucked" bomb in episode 10 or whenever is going to be all that mind-changing.
― ILoveMeconium (President Keyes), Sunday, 16 November 2014 12:55 (nine years ago) link
http://www.theawl.com/2014/11/serial-and-white-reporter-privilege
some discussion of this piece of the Race Thread. Writer has a bizarre misreading of SK's comment on Hae's diary.
As long as the show has the blessing of the girl's family, I'm ok with it.
Does it have their blessing? I assumed since they haven't been interviewed that they wanted nothing to do with the show.
― ILoveMeconium (President Keyes), Sunday, 16 November 2014 12:59 (nine years ago) link
i thought that in episode 1 or 2 they discussed his lawyer
― flatizza (harbl), Sunday, 16 November 2014 13:07 (nine years ago) link
There was a mention, with SK saying that some think she intentionally threw the case, which is a statement kind of asking for follow up
― ILoveMeconium (President Keyes), Sunday, 16 November 2014 13:13 (nine years ago) link
pretty sure they said his lawyer died a few years ago
― difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 16 November 2014 15:48 (nine years ago) link
She did, but I think he meant the topic needs to be revisited.
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 16 November 2014 15:51 (nine years ago) link
does it seem to anyone else like hae is missing in this? as far as i know, there hasn't been anything about her family, her friends (outside of those known to jay/adnan), etc.
― moonstone (soda), Sunday, 16 November 2014 21:55 (nine years ago) link
that did strike me too, idk, there was stuff from her diary. i also feel like her family may not have wanted to be involved
― johnny crunch, Sunday, 16 November 2014 22:06 (nine years ago) link
The Wall Street OnenalThe Wall Street TwonalThe Wall Street ThreenalThe Wall Street Fournal
― Michael F Gill, Wednesday, 14 September 2022 20:25 (one year ago) link
Ha - that's an artefact of iOS Safari not letting me select the paragraphs I wanted leading me to screenshot it and use the OCR in Photos to grab the text. But the Independent font has funny italicized Js that look like Fs.
― Alba, Wednesday, 14 September 2022 20:57 (one year ago) link
Jesus, the details of what the state is disclosing sound awfully damning:
The new motion said prosecutors on the case decades ago knew there was another suspect who threatened to kill Lee, Syed’s ex-girlfriend, and neglected to disclose the information to defense attorneys — committing what’s known as a Brady violation....A year-long investigation conducted by prosecutors and Syed’s attorney uncovered new evidence, including that “alternative suspects” either engaged in serial rape and sexual assault or attacked a woman in a vehicle, the documents show. Prosecutors’ motion also says that Lee’s vehicle was located near a home associated with of the alternative suspects....Prosecutors wrote one of the alternative suspects was violent toward a woman and “forcibly confined her” before Syed’s trial. After Syed’s trial, one of the suspects attacked a woman in her vehicle and was convicted of that crime. One of the alternative suspects was convicted in connection to multiple rapes and sexual assaults, conducted in a “systemic, deliberate and premeditated way.”
...
A year-long investigation conducted by prosecutors and Syed’s attorney uncovered new evidence, including that “alternative suspects” either engaged in serial rape and sexual assault or attacked a woman in a vehicle, the documents show. Prosecutors’ motion also says that Lee’s vehicle was located near a home associated with of the alternative suspects.
Prosecutors wrote one of the alternative suspects was violent toward a woman and “forcibly confined her” before Syed’s trial. After Syed’s trial, one of the suspects attacked a woman in her vehicle and was convicted of that crime. One of the alternative suspects was convicted in connection to multiple rapes and sexual assaults, conducted in a “systemic, deliberate and premeditated way.”
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-prosecutors-move-to-vacate-adnan-syed-sentence-20220914-uinmd6pa45cqbfj4fwyvac2tb4-story.html
― rob, Thursday, 15 September 2022 19:26 (one year ago) link
a little hard to believe tbh -- with all of the attention and investigation devoted to the case, no one previously noticed that there was a serial rapist who threatened Hae's life? Or are they talking about two different "alternative suspects," one who threatened her life and another who was a serial rapist? And how did the prosecutors even find out that this death threat had happened unless someone else besides Hae was aware of it?
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 16 September 2022 01:47 (one year ago) link
BTW, what happened with the DNA testing back in March -- does that typically take this long to come out?
Baltimore Sun reporter is livetweeting from court
With Phinn denying Kelly's motion, it makes it more likely she will rule on Syed today. However, to be absolutely clear, she does NOT have to rule from the bench. She can take time if she wants.— Lee Sanderlin (@LeeOSanderlin) September 19, 2022
― Alba, Monday, 19 September 2022 19:02 (one year ago) link
Is the actual motion to vacate available to read somewhere?
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 19 September 2022 19:19 (one year ago) link
Freed
Judge also orders Syed released under home detention. Removing his shackles now. Orders new trial.— Lee Sanderlin (@LeeOSanderlin) September 19, 2022
― Alba, Monday, 19 September 2022 20:12 (one year ago) link
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, September 15, 2022 9:47 PM (four days ago)
Mentioned in the Sun's write-up:
"While examining the case, prosecutors agreed to request new DNA testing for items collected as evidence of Lee’s killing.
Phinn ordered the tests in March, but the results have so far been inconclusive, court documents show. Tests for a few of the items are pending."
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-cr-adnan-syed-hearing-to-vacate-conviction-20220919-ynxvlcuqpbch5h6h2xl5xleh7q-story.html
― rob, Monday, 19 September 2022 20:24 (one year ago) link
I wonder if they might negotiate an Alford plea? Although it sounds like the current prosecutors actually want to make sure they convict the right person, not just win.
― just1n3, Monday, 19 September 2022 22:35 (one year ago) link
Just relistened to the first two episodes, and already I am much less happy about the standard of journalism in this than I was in 2014. Some of this may be to do with being able to hear the birth of the generally-repugnant True Crime Podcast industry, but I think the way it tells the story is messier and more simplistic than I remembered too.
― link.exposing.politically (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 19 September 2022 23:18 (one year ago) link
Serial is supposedly dropping a new episode tomorrow
― SincereLee 'Scratch' Perry (President Keyes), Monday, 19 September 2022 23:42 (one year ago) link
It would be interesting to know whether either of these two new suspects is the guy Serial and team Adnan were trying to pin the murder on
― SincereLee 'Scratch' Perry (President Keyes), Monday, 19 September 2022 23:43 (one year ago) link
I heard koenig on The Daily. From her reporting, I can accept why the prosecutor made the decision she did, if you take the story at face value. I still think Adnan is guilty, but if the state comes forward with some convincing evidence that someone else did this, I'm prepared to be open minded about it. Unfortunately, if I had to bet, I'd bet there will be no new trial for Adnan and no trial for anyone else either.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 21 September 2022 02:28 (one year ago) link
Baltimore prosecutors on Tuesday dropped all charges against Adnan Syed, the man who spent over two decades behind bars for the 1999 killing of his ex-girlfriend Hae Min Lee and whose murder case was featured in the landmark podcast “Serial.”Baltimore City State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby said Tuesday she instructed her office to dismiss the charges after results of advanced DNA testing of Lee’s shoes, skirt, pantyhose and jacket ruled out Syed.“The items that we tested had never before been tested,” Mosby said. “We used advanced DNA to determine that it was not Adnan Syed.”
Baltimore City State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby said Tuesday she instructed her office to dismiss the charges after results of advanced DNA testing of Lee’s shoes, skirt, pantyhose and jacket ruled out Syed.
“The items that we tested had never before been tested,” Mosby said. “We used advanced DNA to determine that it was not Adnan Syed.”
― sometimes you have to drink to kill the paranoia (PBKR), Tuesday, 11 October 2022 20:21 (one year ago) link
So was it the fuckin... six-fingered man?? What?
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 11 October 2022 22:40 (one year ago) link
So, apparently there was no recoverable/testable DNA on the skirt, pantyhose and jacket at all. There was DNA on the shoes of "multiple" individuals who did not match Syed.
I am having a really hard time understanding how that would eliminate Syed as the murderer - the shoes weren't even on her when she was buried, they were in the car. I feel increasingly out on a limb arguing with a prosecutor's decision to overturn a conviction and at the same time I am completely baffled by this and do not understand.
The ONLY way it would wind up making sense is if that DNA specifically matches one of the "alternative suspects," and that suspect wouldn't otherwise have had contact with Hae such that the DNA accidentally got on her shoes (this is trace DNA so it's like tiny amounts of skin cells). And even then, you'd need a lot more than just DNA on shoes to convict. I guess we will see if that's the case?
Meanwhile, Rabia Chaudhry is now insisting that Scott Peterson is innocent too.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 12 October 2022 01:25 (one year ago) link
I'm not following that closely, but he was released on house arrest because they realized the defense was not told about other suspects... and whatever else was wrong about that trial. Meantime, they ordered new DNA work. Now that's back and in the absence of any more evidence against him, he's not going to be tried. Right?There's no real question of eliminating him as a suspect.
― maf you one two (maffew12), Wednesday, 12 October 2022 01:34 (one year ago) link
I’ve read a few articles and I’m equally kinda baffled.Mosby is kind of a sullied prosecutor and politician here in Baltimore, she’s currently under federal indictment. Would not at all be surprised if this was a cheap ploy to drum up good will.
― circa1916, Wednesday, 12 October 2022 01:53 (one year ago) link
“We used advanced DNA to determine that it was not Adnan Syed.”I mean, this is a Trump-level statement.
― circa1916, Wednesday, 12 October 2022 02:10 (one year ago) link
I’ve read a few articles and I’m equally kinda baffled.
Mosby is kind of a sullied prosecutor and politician here in Baltimore, she’s currently under federal indictment. Would not at all be surprised if this was a cheap ploy to drum up good will.
― circa1916, Tuesday, October 11, 2022 8:53 PM (fifty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
At first I dismissed this as conspiracy theory, but there are literally stories in the news RIGHT NOW about how her attorneys are being accused of trying to influence the jury pool.
Becky Feldman, the attorney who wrote the motion, may have been a true believer, but it reads like she watched the HBO Doc and took it as gospel. She gets significant facts blatantly wrong.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 12 October 2022 02:50 (one year ago) link
xp OK I missed them coming right out and saying that. Wow.
― maf you one two (maffew12), Wednesday, 12 October 2022 12:30 (one year ago) link
This feels like a Mad Lib: Serial subject Adnan Syed spent his first Thanksgiving out of prison with Young Sheldon pic.twitter.com/TlPAHIJ6HO— Jillian Sederholm (@JillianSed) November 30, 2022
― jaymc, Thursday, 1 December 2022 01:46 (one year ago) link