eugh.
hate him.
― Rave Van Donk (jim in glasgow), Thursday, 5 March 2015 00:25 (nine years ago) link
given that the majority of the country has only just voted against independence.
Not by a large majority, though, and in many seat the No lead was relatively slim.
If all the Yes vote went to the SNP but the No vote split three ways, the SNP would sweep the board, just about.
― stet, Thursday, 5 March 2015 01:58 (nine years ago) link
Egad, what scum is Murphy? (xxpost). I was corrected about his 9 years at Strathclyde without gaining a degree. It was actually 11 years! He took two gap years in that time.
― everything, Thursday, 5 March 2015 05:22 (nine years ago) link
I think it's important to recognise that a vote for the SNP in a General Election isn't necessarily a vote in favour of Scottish independence. Jim Murphy is an utterly useless twunt and the Labour party is deserving of its current scorn so the SNP would probably be my default if the Green party didn't exist, but I still haven't decided if I support independence or not.
In other news I am so over Wings Scotland, Bella Union, the 45%, etc. I've deleted my Twitter and I'm ready to delete my Facebook because I'm fed up of griping and hanging on, as opposed to moving on.
― boxedjoy, Thursday, 5 March 2015 13:06 (nine years ago) link
Murphy currently polling 9 points behind in his constituency. pmsl as they say.
― everything, Friday, 17 April 2015 19:43 (nine years ago) link
general erection
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 17 April 2015 23:17 (nine years ago) link
Any minds changed after the oil prices dropping? Did it matter that much?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 17 April 2015 23:29 (nine years ago) link
Murphy currently polling 9 points behind in his constituency. pmsl as they say.― everything, Friday, 17 April 2015 20:43 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I think he knew which was the wind was blowing when he stood as SLab leader - guaranteed another lucrative job after the next Scottish election.
― no way no way sna sna (onimo), Friday, 17 April 2015 23:43 (nine years ago) link
true but i doubt he thought the wind was blowing quite so strongly, certainly not enough to lose his seat. although of course and sadly i agree on your latter point.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Saturday, 18 April 2015 00:37 (nine years ago) link
Was at a Common Weal event last night and one of the speakers (think it was Elaine C Smith) said that Scotland is a different country post-referendum. Seems otm, as they say round here
― paolo, Saturday, 18 April 2015 12:40 (nine years ago) link
So can someone walk me through what needs to happen/who needs to agree for there to be another referendum?
― Insane Prince of False Binaries (Gukbe), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:40 (nine years ago) link
Hell freezing over?
― Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:42 (nine years ago) link
I'd say Scottish independence looks a near certainty now. The combination of total SNP victory and Tory government...
― (Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:43 (nine years ago) link
The divide is too strong to ignore now, surely.
― Insane Prince of False Binaries (Gukbe), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:43 (nine years ago) link
Supposedly we're having a referendum on the European Union, so God knows how they'll fit in another Scottish referendum.
― Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:44 (nine years ago) link
It's unlikely this year - there's no mandate for it. The SNP explicitly campaigned that an SNP vote was NOT a vote for independence but to keep the Tories out. I think a referendum would follow the 2016 Holyrood election, which could well be done explicitly as a "vote for us and we'll get independence".
A lot hangs on what will happen between now and then. The Tories are making noises about full fiscal autonomy for Scotland; what they mean is scrapping Barnett and hugely reducing funding for Scotland.
― stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:44 (nine years ago) link
SNP put it on manifesto for 2016 Scottish elections. SNP win election.SNP negotiate terms etc with Westminster.Referendum vote.
^^^so not gonna happen
― mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:45 (nine years ago) link
Doesn't matter what the SNP want, it's up to the Tories.
― Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:45 (nine years ago) link
Holyrood could hold the referendum. If Westminster wanted to ignore the result we really would be in constitutional crisis territory
― stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:47 (nine years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2015/may/09/david-cameron-labour-scotland-europe-john-redwood
http://www.gov.scot/Resource/Doc/923/0055551.pdfp34
― nakhchivan, Sunday, 10 May 2015 23:08 (nine years ago) link
Lord Arson is back on the Labour front bench. Unbelievable barrel scraping.
lets not forget
"He was imprisoned after social assessment concluded that there was a significant risk of his re-offending".
" In a statement, a Labour spokesman said: "Mr Watson has been expelled from the Labour Party.
"His sentence illustrates that if you commit a serious crime in Scotland, no matter who you are, you must face the consequences. That is right."
― Cosmic Slop, Friday, 18 September 2015 20:31 (nine years ago) link
Who's Lord Arson what is it you're talking about?
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 18 September 2015 20:46 (nine years ago) link
Lord Watson
― Cosmic Slop, Friday, 18 September 2015 20:50 (nine years ago) link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4269808.stm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34288573
Jeremy Corbyn has finalised his frontbench line-up, appointing a peer jailed for arson to his education team.Lord Watson - a former MP and MSP - was given a 16-month jail sentence in 2005 for starting a fire at an Edinburgh hotel. He was suspended from the party, but regained the whip in 2012.
Lord Watson - a former MP and MSP - was given a 16-month jail sentence in 2005 for starting a fire at an Edinburgh hotel. He was suspended from the party, but regained the whip in 2012.
― Cosmic Slop, Friday, 18 September 2015 20:51 (nine years ago) link
Ah. Thanks for the clarification.
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 18 September 2015 21:34 (nine years ago) link
i agree that nobody who commits a crime should ever be allowed to hold public office ever again
― bellendery hooks (Noodle Vague), Friday, 18 September 2015 21:37 (nine years ago) link
What's this got to do with the Scottish indyref?
― ailsa, Saturday, 19 September 2015 07:18 (nine years ago) link
burning bridges
― Robert Kenedy Nunes do Nascimento (nakhchivan), Saturday, 19 September 2015 10:27 (nine years ago) link
so i guess it's time to dig this thread out again eh
― im a male feminist, i have a fleshlight just to eat it out (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 13 March 2017 12:51 (seven years ago) link
Current polling is on 49%, and if the campaign gives that a bump half that it got in the last one, Yes will romp home.
Who will stand against this time? The Tories are going to have a fun time squaring the justification for Brexit against the justification for independence, while simultaneously playing down a border in Ireland and playing up a border in Scotland, while claiming Scotland won't be able to trade with England its biggest partner while claiming England will be able to trade with the EU, its biggest partner.
Labour? It's going to amount to a single-man Project Fear from Blair McDougall saying the numbers don't add up because the oil price has sunk forever and ever and also there's no way Scotland will ever trade with England again. Maybe Brown will make another speech.
― stet, Monday, 13 March 2017 12:59 (seven years ago) link
that hard time squaring justifications is already rearing its head. No10 sez:
Another referendum would be divisive and cause huge economic uncertainty at the worst possible time.
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Monday, 13 March 2017 13:11 (seven years ago) link
Everything hinges on what the EU says and does, right? If 'Independence, but outside the EU' looks like the most likely option then I can see a No vote again. If the option to stay in the EU is explicitly on the table then Yes will win comfortably.
― Matt DC, Monday, 13 March 2017 13:24 (seven years ago) link
It almost certainly will be on the table. Which will again leave No trying simultaneously to say England matters most to Scotland for trade so it can't leave and that England will get a trade deal so Brexit will be fine.
The timing is perfect; it might be the factor that turns what has always been a pretty unlikely thing really into a reality.
― stet, Monday, 13 March 2017 13:29 (seven years ago) link
Come on first ever four letter country code
― El Tomboto, Monday, 13 March 2017 13:36 (seven years ago) link
Unnamed diplomat says Scot entry a "slam dunk" https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertonardelli/this-is-how-the-eu-will-handle-theresa-mays-triggering-of-ar?utm_term=.rbYy53al0#.wvQgblVeJ
― stet, Monday, 13 March 2017 13:37 (seven years ago) link
so what happens when no 10 says (as i suspect they almost certainly will) 'fuck off' to a second referendum?
― im a male feminist, i have a fleshlight just to eat it out (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 13 March 2017 13:39 (seven years ago) link
They go ahead and hold it anyway?
― Matt DC, Monday, 13 March 2017 13:52 (seven years ago) link
is "scotland breaks away and stays in the eu" something all 27 members have to assent to? bcz aren't some of them (spain) pretty hinky abt the implications for their own polity of secessions from the union
the salience of Project-Fear-type argts will be interesting over the next couple of years -- if brexit turns out bad (which sturgeon is sure somewhat counting on) then PF-type argt will presumably gain somewhat in told-you-so force,* even tho intricate (but correct) economic argt have not had a good run against cultural argts recently (including in Indy1, in fact: the claims Yes brought to the table re how it wd pay for itself were kinda garbage-y, but pointing this out didn't seem to register significantly among reasons for the final vote)
*even when wielded by those who formerly mocked them: squaring contradictory arguments is after all what strong politicians do (i don't think may is a strong politician; ruth davidson remains to be tested tbh)
― mark s, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:05 (seven years ago) link
Spain may have strong politicians, though - joining the EU because you love it more than the country you're seceding from is possibly sufficiently different from Catalan's situation.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:11 (seven years ago) link
i vaguely remember reading that spain has shifted on this anyway (scotland, not catalan): but are there other member nations it's an issue for
this doesn't matter if you don't have to get all 27 ducks in a row, of course
strikes me the situation can be leveraged by the eu negotiators: "we offer the rump uk this better trade deal if and only scotland is allowed its referendum with a view to staying in the eu" (tho there may be reasons this isn't allowed)
― mark s, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:17 (seven years ago) link
It looks fairly accepted that Scotland couldn't "stay in the union", it would have to join as a new member. But virtually everyone in Europe who is asked says it would be a very quick entrance. Even Spain.
This all definitely strengthens the EU negotiating hand.
― stet, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:18 (seven years ago) link
puts pressure on yes to fashion a somewhat less dodgy economic spec than they did two years ago: schauble et al will side-eye anything that even remotely reminds them of the (adittedly very much dodgier) stuff greece claimed abt *its* financial health when it came, which led to all kinds of shenanigans as you will recall
a cheeky cat labour could fly over to put among the snp's pigeons wd be yannis varoufakis actually lol
― mark s, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:32 (seven years ago) link
If after two years the negotiations stall I'm curious as to how the 27 then agree on either allowing the negotiations to continue indefinitely (which confirms the whole 'two years' thing as a mere estimation pointless for anyone to even bother mentioning) or...what? Saying 'sorry (lol) UK we can't agree a deal (lol) so you can't leave'? One can get the impression considerations never ventured such depth and distance.
― nashwan, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:40 (seven years ago) link
mcternan's called it! https://twitter.com/johnmcternan/status/836484996349165568
(he follows me on twitter you know)
(also when he was a young un JMcT put out a punk fanzine named for a stranglers song -- i spotted it at the exhibition at the british library but i can't put my hands on the note i made about its name)
― mark s, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:44 (seven years ago) link
nashwan - a) I understand that there are standard WTO agreements which EU/UK trade would default to, any UK laws would be the UK's problem - hence May's plan to just photocopy the EU ones and amend them later. And b) would this be better suited to the Brexit thread?
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:59 (seven years ago) link
copy that
― nashwan, Monday, 13 March 2017 15:05 (seven years ago) link
when he was a young un JMcT put out a punk fanzine
When Jaki Liebezeit played at Cafe OTO (last year?) he was sitting at the front, all giggly and excitable and bouncing on his seat.
― Return of the Flustered Bootle Native (Tom D.), Monday, 13 March 2017 15:44 (seven years ago) link
a person like john mcternan should not be able to go out in public without being constantly heckled (this is the type of thing in which he represents to revel but still)
― conrad, Monday, 13 March 2017 15:53 (seven years ago) link
Has he ever got anything right?
― Return of the Flustered Bootle Native (Tom D.), Monday, 13 March 2017 15:57 (seven years ago) link