Your 2016 Presidential Candidate Speculation Thread

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a female president would be great, 99% of presidents will share 99% of the same policies, and hillary is the only woman likely to be president = clinton is a good candidate

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:06 (nine years ago) link

argument against clinton is that from a legislative stand point he spent a lot of his time enacting cruel republican policies that helped to shred what little safety net we had left for no good reason except he thought being a centrist was very cool and smart, its true too

lag∞n, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:07 (nine years ago) link

btw lol http://www.vox.com/2015/3/16/8220537/al-gore-president-2016

lag∞n, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:07 (nine years ago) link

i mean i would fucking love a hispanic president but that's not a reason i'd support ted cruz

tbf he's Canadian

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:07 (nine years ago) link

lagoon otm

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:07 (nine years ago) link

i'm not going to go into a whole spiel about what i think is wrong about obama's foreign affairs yet again. if you don't think obama is responsible for the turmoil in egypt, libya, iraq, syria, ukraine, etc, okay fine. we have different povs there.

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:08 (nine years ago) link

that Vox article this morning inspired more if-only speculation from friends and wistful exclamations about What Might Have Been.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 March 2015 16:08 (nine years ago) link

argument against clinton is that from a legislative stand point he spent a lot of his time enacting cruel republican policies that helped to shred what little safety net we had left for no good reason except he thought being a centrist was very cool and smart, its true too

I'm wondering if it would've been worse if Dole had had a chance in '96.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 March 2015 16:09 (nine years ago) link

I would vote for Gore but c'mon

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:09 (nine years ago) link

Clinton basically fulfilled Reagan's dreams much like Ike consolidated the New Deal's advances.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 March 2015 16:09 (nine years ago) link

also when clinton had the congressional majority to pass anything liberal at the beginning of his reign he bungled the hell out of it

lag∞n, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:11 (nine years ago) link

if you don't think obama is responsible for the turmoil in egypt, libya, iraq, syria, ukraine, etc, okay fine. we have different povs there.

it seems bizarre to state that Obama is directly responsible for (most of) these things. I can get how a reasonable person would have issues with how he's directed US policy in response to these things, but to say he caused them is just crazy.

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:11 (nine years ago) link

u didnt know the arab spring was a cia plot smh

lag∞n, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:11 (nine years ago) link

Clinton's first year in office was the most amateurish bungling ever. That's the only correct part of the conventional wisdom.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 March 2015 16:12 (nine years ago) link

Even with a GOP that didn't accept the legitimacy of a Dem president and already sniffing around Whitewater, the way he wasted time on unvetted attorney general nominees, caviled on gays in the military, and was already hinting to "end welfare as we know it" forced me to all kinds of twists to defend him.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 March 2015 16:15 (nine years ago) link

it was p sad

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:15 (nine years ago) link

it amazed me around '99-'00 when his approval ratings hung consistently over 60 percent and he was already beloved by a considerable portion of the American electorate. I remember idle chatter concerning how sad it was that he was limited to two terms. We love "survivors," don't we.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 March 2015 16:19 (nine years ago) link

libya he actually intervened in, syria he had on-and-off interventions and didn't arm the FSA, egypt he somehow managed to convince that he was pro Muslim Brotherhood, iraq he was in charge of the withdrawal -- i mean these are all actual things he did (or didn't do). plus he alienated sunni allies w/ his iran rapprochement (which has no indications that he's going to be able to put together a deal). ok, he didn't tell putin to invade ukraine, but the US did help foment the ukraine revolution by most accounts -- like i don't blame him for everything that happens in the world, but the stuff he's done has been at best ineffective and at worst disastrous.

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:19 (nine years ago) link

what are his foreign affairs accomplishments? leaving a power vacuum in iraq? toppling Gaddafi? his drone projects in yemen have obviously been completely ineffective.

he killed osama bin laden -- i give him credit for that. but i don't see many other accomplishments.

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:21 (nine years ago) link

Clinton and Somalia... Also, we all know Mordy dislikes Obama's foreign policy because he doesn't fawn over Bibi.

Frederik B, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:21 (nine years ago) link

yes that's the only reason and not the many other reasons i gave u asshole

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:22 (nine years ago) link

syria he had on-and-off interventions and didn't arm the FSA

― Mordy, Monday, March 16, 2015 12:19 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the did arm the fsa! and continues to do so, it was just secretly through intermediaries

lag∞n, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:22 (nine years ago) link

but sure, let's bring israel in too - in addition to alienating israel thru reaching out to Iran his team completely fucked up making a deal w/ the Palestinians. i'm not a huge Oslo fan but at least Bill secured a photo op on the white house lawn.

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:23 (nine years ago) link

xp is that the benghazi consulate conspiracy theory? at best, if american weapons did make it to FSA, it was without the influence that might've kept them moderate + from turning into al-nusra/ISIS/etc

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:24 (nine years ago) link

libya he actually intervened in, syria he had on-and-off interventions and didn't arm the FSA, egypt he somehow managed to convince that he was pro Muslim Brotherhood, iraq he was in charge of the withdrawal

these are all scenarios where literally *every* option available to the US was shitty, and none of them were instigated by the U.S.

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:24 (nine years ago) link

without the influence that might've kept them moderate + from turning into al-nusra/ISIS/etc

this is a pipe dream and you know it

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:25 (nine years ago) link

So he wasn't responsible at all for the premature withdrawal of all forces from Iraq? Or despite the rise of Isis we think that's a good thing?

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:26 (nine years ago) link

Also plenty of ppl smarter than shakey thought promoting the fsa might've helped. I'll tell you what def didn't help tho- the insane red lines fiasco

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:26 (nine years ago) link

just find it bizarre that you think it's the responsibility of a US president to maintain stability in notoriously unstable and uncooperative middle eastern regimes I mean come on that is delusional. lol "premature" how long would you have us stay in Iraq, forever? they wanted us to leave! military operations were over and there was never going to be some heavy-handed "installation" of a puppet regime (is that what you were hoping for)?

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:27 (nine years ago) link

I guarantee you Hillary's response would have been to bomb everything in sight, she's going to be even more hawkish than Obama in order to avoid being painted as "weak"

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:28 (nine years ago) link

yes that's the only reason and not the many other reasons i gave u asshole

― Mordy, 16. marts 2015 17:22 (41 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes. I def believe that you are angry because he alienated sunni allies, that was not at all disingenuous of you to claim. Come on, man.

Frederik B, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:28 (nine years ago) link

xp is that the benghazi consulate conspiracy theory? at best, if american weapons did make it to FSA, it was without the influence that might've kept them moderate + from turning into al-nusra/ISIS/etc

― Mordy, Monday, March 16, 2015 12:24 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

im not a super close follower of the conflict but its been reported in like the nytimes that the us started funneling weapons to the rebels fairly early on in the conflict, like when republicans were grousing about how we werent doing it we were doing it, so idk might want to change yr perfect reverse engineered logic, if just the right weapons were brought in the insane chaotic war couldve been perfectly game theoried as always lol

lag∞n, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:28 (nine years ago) link

provision of arms/guns turning enemies into ideological allies = that is not really a thing that happens in the real world, esp not in places like Syria

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:30 (nine years ago) link

frederik, it's pretty offensive to ignore a list of like 20 things that have nothing to do w/ israel and decide that actually my secret motivation for hating obama's foreign policy is that he doesn't like bibi enough. i thought you were better than that. that's morbz level idiocy.

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:31 (nine years ago) link

fwiw i think all the terrible fp was worth it for obama's domestic policies which i think were more important to improve, and will ultimately have a better impact on the US's ability to maneuver globally. but you're lying to yourselves if you think there's nothing to critique in obama's fp.

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:33 (nine years ago) link

of course there are things to critique im just always very suspicious of the tidy counter factuals

lag∞n, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:34 (nine years ago) link

xp re Clinton's great accomplishments (domestic), let's not forget how the Telecommunications Act of 1996 destroyed television and radio cross-ownership rules, while failing to regulate the Internet as a common carrier ... Obama might be trying to clean up after Clinton on the last point, but there's no rolling back the hegemonies of News Corporation or iHeartMedia/Clear Channel

Brad C., Monday, 16 March 2015 16:34 (nine years ago) link

HRC would be an AIPAC-adored Mad Bomber prez, but unforch (for them) if nominated she's losing to the Republican ... but again, won't make much difference.

Obama aint cleaned up SHIT

touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 March 2015 16:35 (nine years ago) link

thanks! I threw up my lunch!

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 March 2015 16:35 (nine years ago) link

there's plenty to criticize in Obama's fp - drone wars, stupid red-line statements - but praising Clinton's as better doesn't make sense to me.

xp

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:35 (nine years ago) link

+ btw somalia started under GHWB so in terms of clean-up...

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:38 (nine years ago) link

so long as presidents resort to foreign adventures after reeling from legislative setbacks we're going to have horrible shit to clean up and never will

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 16 March 2015 16:38 (nine years ago) link

frederik, it's pretty offensive to ignore a list of like 20 things that have nothing to do w/ israel and decide that actually my secret motivation for hating obama's foreign policy is that he doesn't like bibi enough. i thought you were better than that. that's morbz level idiocy.

― Mordy, 16. marts 2015 17:31 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Fuck you saying it's offensive. For you to make a list of things you dislike about Obama and not include Israel, when that is like 95% of what you complain about on here, is bullshit, and it only gets worse the more items is on the list. Calling you out on that is not 'offensive'. Offensive is saying someone dislikes Bibi because he is Iranian, or discussing how to get islamophobic friends to express their hatred of muslims without using antisemitic tropes.

I don't care what you think of me. I've honestly lost all the respect I had for you these last few months.

Frederik B, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:47 (nine years ago) link

i don't know what the fuck you're talking about w/ getting islamophobic friends to express their hatred of muslims whatever, but i talk about a lot of things on ilx. that you think 95% of it is israel only tells me where your focus is.

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:48 (nine years ago) link

this is tiresome. you guys hate each other, we get it.

Οὖτις, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:49 (nine years ago) link

maybe i left israel out bc i know morons like you + morbz love the chance to attack me for my support of israel every chance you get and maybe i want to discuss obama's FP without having to deal w/ your illiterate howls.

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:49 (nine years ago) link

(^ not maybe. that was actually my motivation. thanks for proving my instincts correct)

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:49 (nine years ago) link

'Oh, I lied about my motivations so as not to have them discussed, and you called me out on it. That's offensive!!!'

Frederik B, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:56 (nine years ago) link

actually i don't organize my entire view of the world around my opinion on israel and i have many interests. you apparently have one. i'm not surprised.

Mordy, Monday, 16 March 2015 16:57 (nine years ago) link

'Oh, I lied about my motivations... '

The externally available facts are woefully insufficient to establish this as a fact. To put it more succinctly, you're imagining things. nagl

Aimless, Monday, 16 March 2015 17:24 (nine years ago) link


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