hey gawker dudes. what the fuck is wrong with you?

i remember m*mus used to offer like critical palm-readings or something based on ppl's work too -- that was fun.

Man come on, stop flailing around for arguments. Are you seriously claiming that Ilx is a safe space for people not to have their writing or journalistic behavior critiqued?

― a strawman stuffed with their collection of 12 cds (jjjusten), Saturday, 18 April 2015 15:01 (28 minutes ago) Permalink

so its someone's 'journalistic behavior' that's causing u to go all apoplectic about the horny mom story

'why is this business built on a tabloid not suddenly operating by the ethical standards of the free message board i post on??'

Yes?

okay lol

"This is what tabloid sites do ergo you can't ever criticize them for it" is not a good argument

wait, when did i say 'you can't ever criticize them'??

plz point to the post

reminds me of the time a friend and I were criticizing the play of a quarterback, and dude in front of us turns around almost teary eyed to say, "Hey! Could you do any better?!"

what reminds you of that? something i've specifically said? again, point to that post

All of them?

I mean, I don't even have to scroll up I my phone for examples

really DJP's post reminded me of that. I get that your stance is more a jaded "why would you expect Gawker to not be Gawker" one. But you do seem to be using that stance to hold Gawkers' writers above criticism tbf.

this is more like someone telling the new head coach you're mad that he doesn't play women in the NFL, its like of course it's more right but you can't accuse someone w/in the system of not singlehandedly changing the behavior of an entire system, the shape the system takes when its created doesn't just shift overnight bc you've hired a cool new person who knows that horny mom stories are in poor taste

yes, Gawker, like the catholic church, changes slowly. we should not criticize.

when did i say 'we should not criticize'??

again I'm not sure what 'lols' gawker is being accused of propagating in that article that aren't an inherent part of the story, that's a pretty straight aggregated read

― deej loaf (D-40), Thursday, April 16, 2015 1:18 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mean, there's a critique to be made which is whether these kinds of lurid stories are worth covering at all, but i mean, welcome to 2015

― deej loaf (D-40), Thursday, April 16, 2015 1:19 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

feels like if they weren't trying to push an agenda or steer the convo in a direction, they'd have referred to her by name or at least as an adjective-less being. instead they deliberately choose to call her by the same term throughout the article even after the details of her assault are discussed. i'm not so sure that's the most impartial way to recount the ugly details of this fucked up story.

― head clowning instructor (art), Thursday, April 16, 2015 2:08 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk my guess is it could as easily have been "ugh this dumb story will get a million clicks" *someone aggregates it quickly and lazily*

― deej loaf (D-40), Thursday, April 16, 2015 2:50 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol welcome to 2015

again, you may not directly be saying 'do not criticize', but you are using this weird idea that people are accusing "someone w/in the system of not singlehandedly changing the behavior of an entire system" to quell criticism.

i don't know how we got back on this story except that it's easier for an idiot like jjjusten to argue the moral high ground when he's not arguing against the notion that a woman probably should have written the book about 'internet shaming'

again, you may not directly be saying 'do not criticize', but you are using this weird idea that people are accusing "someone w/in the system of not singlehandedly changing the behavior of an entire system" to quell criticism.

― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, April 18, 2015 11:03 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well i think this thread is pretty weird because it gets personal about people's day jobs yes

I think we can all be friends while remaining critical of the system those people operate in

"those people"

My interpretation of this thread is that Gawker is being singled out because people you guys know are working for it and you're hoping to provoke a response from them...you didn't go after the huffington post or wherever for posting the identical horny mom story. That's my real suspicion, although I know everyone is going to pretend otherwise

the fact is that story is going to go out into the world, and people are going to look at it. i don't think there's anything wrong with the story being covered personally—obviously i don't think the original story was very well written or considered, particularly the way it glosses over the rape. But the criticism here seems to be 'if only they knew jjjusten's thoughtful critique of this aggregator's writing, then this kind of article wouldn't exist" when it's more like the resources probably aren't even being directed to an article like this—it's knocked out in 2 seconds so as to provide time and money for the articles that are worth investing in

idk my guess is it could as easily have been "ugh this dumb story will get a million clicks" *someone aggregates it quickly and lazily*

― deej loaf (D-40), Thursday, April 16, 2015 2:50 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think we can all be friends while remaining critical of the system those people operate in

― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, April 18, 2015 11:07 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wait...now you're criticizing the system? weird

is this the part where you pivot, walk over to the chalkboard, and start furiously scribbling and talking with your back to the classroom?

no its time for you to put words in my mouth again

I think we can all be friends while remaining critical of the system those people operate in

― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, April 18, 2015 11:07 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and by 'remaining critical of the system,' you mean, 'call them out by the name of their employer on ilx'

I think we can all be friends while remaining critical of the times that we think gawker writers who are ilxors are contributing to the awful side of gawker.

wait, an ilxor wrote that article?

just to be clear, ur def not in any way defending gawker (nb I couldnt rly care less about gawker nbb I like all ilxors that I know of writing for gawker) you are just intensely invested in attacking the approach of any post that may criticise gawker

can I ask why? genuinely curious about what sets you off in times like this.

no, just those people who i think are being disingenuous about their motives itt

your honor, I ask that the 'horny mom' article be struck from the evidence

am i a professor or a lawyer ? cmon man

XP fair enough

xp you are the dude who defends the awful way the meat is made, yelling "if you don't like how the meat is made, don't eat the meat!"

"This is what tabloid sites do ergo you can't ever criticize them for it" is not a good argument
--DJP

it kind of is though, given that a lot of non-tabloid journalism is bankrolled by tabloids/clickbait. imo you either have to criticize tabloid journalism relative to other tabloids, otherwise it's just annoying idealism. the "tension" treeship mentioned above is that on gawker the trash and the good stuff are all in the same place. you can still say gawker is nastier than other tabloids, which it prob is. it's also, as sterls has pointed out, way funnier and frequently righteous in its calling out.

deej loaf (D-40)
Posted: April 18, 2015 at 11:28:09 AM
no, just those people who i think are being disingenuous about their motives itt

I can straight up say you are imagining this if you are ascribing that to me. In retrospect the thread title is a little aggro, but I was legit pissed about that Harris Whittels thing. There are similar threads about pitchfork and spin and so on, all of whom have plenty of ilxors involved.

See also the worst piece of music writing thread

no one on ilx wrote the horny mom story

for once

it is kinda distasteful to start an ilx thread as a short cut for writing an old-man-is-angry letter to the gawker editor but gawker is weird and I imagine they just wish this conversation were on kinja

― iatee, Saturday, April 18, 2015 8:22 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

at least ilx monetizes jj's anger a little bit with our google ads I guess

― iatee, Saturday, April 18, 2015 8:24 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

feel like these posts were made in the pocket but thread swung too fast to fully appreciate

Instead of criticizing a tabloid you should focus on criticizing the BAD tabloids. The ones who do it badly, with less verve.

this is more like someone telling the new head coach you're mad that he doesn't play women in the NFL, its like of course it's more right but you can't accuse someone w/in the system of not singlehandedly changing the behavior of an entire system, the shape the system takes when its created doesn't just shift overnight bc you've hired a cool new person who knows that horny mom stories are in poor taste

What

lol at this "day job" stuff
I was unaware that Gawker articles were actually internal company memos leaked onto the Internet rather than publicly available pieces of writing

We may as well shut down all the threads about NRO the Corner and Right Wing cartoonists because those guys are just doing their jobs and fishing for clicks too

no what you should do is make sure to make identical threads for the huffington post, elite daily, and the clickbait factories that don't even bother to pay kiese laymon, and make sure to update them every time there is a viral news story

no

Is gawker just like those places

" imo you either have to criticize tabloid journalism relative to other tabloids, otherwise it's just annoying idealism"

also no

nobody has to do anything but especially nobody has to do these things

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7066236

huff post article doesn't refer to her as the Horny Mom

What

― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, April 18, 2015 12:02 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sorry if that was unclear but i think u guys live in a childlike fantasy of backseat drivers where living in the world doesn't require constant negotiation and compromise