i don't know how we got back on this story except that it's easier for an idiot like jjjusten to argue the moral high ground when he's not arguing against the notion that a woman probably should have written the book about 'internet shaming'
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:05 (nine years ago) link
again, you may not directly be saying 'do not criticize', but you are using this weird idea that people are accusing "someone w/in the system of not singlehandedly changing the behavior of an entire system" to quell criticism.
― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, April 18, 2015 11:03 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
well i think this thread is pretty weird because it gets personal about people's day jobs yes
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:06 (nine years ago) link
I think we can all be friends while remaining critical of the system those people operate in
― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:07 (nine years ago) link
"those people"
― creaks, whines and trife (s.clover), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:08 (nine years ago) link
My interpretation of this thread is that Gawker is being singled out because people you guys know are working for it and you're hoping to provoke a response from them...you didn't go after the huffington post or wherever for posting the identical horny mom story. That's my real suspicion, although I know everyone is going to pretend otherwise
the fact is that story is going to go out into the world, and people are going to look at it. i don't think there's anything wrong with the story being covered personally—obviously i don't think the original story was very well written or considered, particularly the way it glosses over the rape. But the criticism here seems to be 'if only they knew jjjusten's thoughtful critique of this aggregator's writing, then this kind of article wouldn't exist" when it's more like the resources probably aren't even being directed to an article like this—it's knocked out in 2 seconds so as to provide time and money for the articles that are worth investing in
idk my guess is it could as easily have been "ugh this dumb story will get a million clicks" *someone aggregates it quickly and lazily*
― deej loaf (D-40), Thursday, April 16, 2015 2:50 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:14 (nine years ago) link
― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, April 18, 2015 11:07 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
wait...now you're criticizing the system? weird
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:17 (nine years ago) link
is this the part where you pivot, walk over to the chalkboard, and start furiously scribbling and talking with your back to the classroom?
― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:20 (nine years ago) link
no its time for you to put words in my mouth again
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:21 (nine years ago) link
and by 'remaining critical of the system,' you mean, 'call them out by the name of their employer on ilx'
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:23 (nine years ago) link
I think we can all be friends while remaining critical of the times that we think gawker writers who are ilxors are contributing to the awful side of gawker.
― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:25 (nine years ago) link
wait, an ilxor wrote that article?
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:26 (nine years ago) link
just to be clear, ur def not in any way defending gawker (nb I couldnt rly care less about gawker nbb I like all ilxors that I know of writing for gawker) you are just intensely invested in attacking the approach of any post that may criticise gawker
― post you had fecund thoughts about (darraghmac), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:27 (nine years ago) link
can I ask why? genuinely curious about what sets you off in times like this.
no, just those people who i think are being disingenuous about their motives itt
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:28 (nine years ago) link
your honor, I ask that the 'horny mom' article be struck from the evidence
― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:28 (nine years ago) link
am i a professor or a lawyer ? cmon man
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:31 (nine years ago) link
XP fair enough
― post you had fecund thoughts about (darraghmac), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:33 (nine years ago) link
xp you are the dude who defends the awful way the meat is made, yelling "if you don't like how the meat is made, don't eat the meat!"
― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:37 (nine years ago) link
"This is what tabloid sites do ergo you can't ever criticize them for it" is not a good argument --DJP
it kind of is though, given that a lot of non-tabloid journalism is bankrolled by tabloids/clickbait. imo you either have to criticize tabloid journalism relative to other tabloids, otherwise it's just annoying idealism. the "tension" treeship mentioned above is that on gawker the trash and the good stuff are all in the same place. you can still say gawker is nastier than other tabloids, which it prob is. it's also, as sterls has pointed out, way funnier and frequently righteous in its calling out.
― flopson, Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:37 (nine years ago) link
deej loaf (D-40)Posted: April 18, 2015 at 11:28:09 AMno, just those people who i think are being disingenuous about their motives itt
I can straight up say you are imagining this if you are ascribing that to me. In retrospect the thread title is a little aggro, but I was legit pissed about that Harris Whittels thing. There are similar threads about pitchfork and spin and so on, all of whom have plenty of ilxors involved.
― a strawman stuffed with their collection of 12 cds (jjjusten), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:44 (nine years ago) link
See also the worst piece of music writing thread
― a strawman stuffed with their collection of 12 cds (jjjusten), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:45 (nine years ago) link
no one on ilx wrote the horny mom story
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:52 (nine years ago) link
for once
― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:55 (nine years ago) link
it is kinda distasteful to start an ilx thread as a short cut for writing an old-man-is-angry letter to the gawker editor but gawker is weird and I imagine they just wish this conversation were on kinja― iatee, Saturday, April 18, 2015 8:22 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkat least ilx monetizes jj's anger a little bit with our google ads I guess― iatee, Saturday, April 18, 2015 8:24 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― iatee, Saturday, April 18, 2015 8:22 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
at least ilx monetizes jj's anger a little bit with our google ads I guess
― iatee, Saturday, April 18, 2015 8:24 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
feel like these posts were made in the pocket but thread swung too fast to fully appreciate
― And let’s say a new Hozier comes along, and Spotify outbids you (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:56 (nine years ago) link
Instead of criticizing a tabloid you should focus on criticizing the BAD tabloids. The ones who do it badly, with less verve.
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:01 (nine years ago) link
this is more like someone telling the new head coach you're mad that he doesn't play women in the NFL, its like of course it's more right but you can't accuse someone w/in the system of not singlehandedly changing the behavior of an entire system, the shape the system takes when its created doesn't just shift overnight bc you've hired a cool new person who knows that horny mom stories are in poor taste
What
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:02 (nine years ago) link
lol at this "day job" stuffI was unaware that Gawker articles were actually internal company memos leaked onto the Internet rather than publicly available pieces of writing
We may as well shut down all the threads about NRO the Corner and Right Wing cartoonists because those guys are just doing their jobs and fishing for clicks too
― Is It Any Wonder I'm Not the (President Keyes), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:07 (nine years ago) link
no what you should do is make sure to make identical threads for the huffington post, elite daily, and the clickbait factories that don't even bother to pay kiese laymon, and make sure to update them every time there is a viral news story
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:21 (nine years ago) link
no
― post you had fecund thoughts about (darraghmac), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:23 (nine years ago) link
Is gawker just like those places
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:23 (nine years ago) link
" imo you either have to criticize tabloid journalism relative to other tabloids, otherwise it's just annoying idealism"
also no
nobody has to do anything but especially nobody has to do these things
― post you had fecund thoughts about (darraghmac), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:25 (nine years ago) link
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7066236
huff post article doesn't refer to her as the Horny Mom
― Is It Any Wonder I'm Not the (President Keyes), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:26 (nine years ago) link
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, April 18, 2015 12:02 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
sorry if that was unclear but i think u guys live in a childlike fantasy of backseat drivers where living in the world doesn't require constant negotiation and compromise
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:28 (nine years ago) link
I don't think it's "right" for women to play in the NFL. I mean it would be cool sure
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:30 (nine years ago) link
ya its real tough out there in the real world of uh writing throwaways on the internet, nobody here has any more valid realness experience than that and therefore should not actually dare voice an opinion where it can be challeneged by realness warrior d-40
― post you had fecund thoughts about (darraghmac), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:31 (nine years ago) link
this was written by a professional music critic
― da croupier, Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:32 (nine years ago) link
Is that from Ollie North's testimony?
― Is It Any Wonder I'm Not the (President Keyes), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:32 (nine years ago) link
oh i don't think I'm some voice of realness and authenticity i just think a few of you are holier than thou rubberneckers & moralizers ^__^
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:33 (nine years ago) link
― Is It Any Wonder I'm Not the (President Keyes), Saturday, April 18, 2015 12:32 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i was hoping for a 'the nazis said they were just doing their jobs' comparison but this will do
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:34 (nine years ago) link
if you object to horny mom stories denton fires you on the spot i bet
― polyphonic, Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:35 (nine years ago) link
You want me on that wall, you need me on that wall
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:35 (nine years ago) link
have we gotten to the point where everyone realizes that the entire media industry is driven by clickbait traffic yet or are we still stuck on scapegoating the couple people we know for not transforming a tabloid into the voice of media righteousness overnight
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:37 (nine years ago) link
yes
― post you had fecund thoughts about (darraghmac), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:39 (nine years ago) link
i'm trying to imagine a gawker writer appreciating this defense-not-a-defense
― da croupier, Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:40 (nine years ago) link
"thank you, d-40, for pointing out how hurtful it is they give this shit to me and not the writers for elite daily"
If you want to transform the media, you're gonna have to have some horny moms. Gotta crack some eggs to make that omelette
― Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:41 (nine years ago) link
imo ryan otm upthread re gawker’s educated “irony”— implied ironic distance to its own tabloid trashiness— which might (in editor’s mind) allow it to push further, cross lines other (ostensibly “nonironic”) tabloids wouldn’t (e.g. phrase “horny mom” which afaict only used by gawker)
― drash, Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:41 (nine years ago) link
yes 'hurtful' is what my concern is
as opposed to myopic point missing
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:42 (nine years ago) link
xxxp
gawker moralizes all the time dude. that's what makes the article stick out - they call out other sites for similar bullshit on a regular basis, which leaves them open to criticism when they fuck up. they def post trashy articles but they're usually not as tone-deaf and gross as this one.
― JoeStork, Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:44 (nine years ago) link
i guess if you buy into denton's 'the only real crime is hypocrisy' thing that's true but idk i think this is as bad when elite daily does it as it is when gawker does it
which is to say the clickbait trash noise that keeps the entire structure running is gross and super fucking annoying, but its still a supreme waste of time to give one of those tossed off article a thorough media critique when it was probably thrown together in less time than it takes to make a ham sandwich
― deej loaf (D-40), Saturday, 18 April 2015 17:48 (nine years ago) link