we can do this i will teach you how to live the lie― lag∞n, Monday, May 18, 2015 4:49 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― lag∞n, Monday, May 18, 2015 4:49 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i will teach u how to become the man who drinks at work
― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:08 (nine years ago) link
i will teach you how to become... hamm
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:09 (nine years ago) link
step 1: be at work
― Οὖτις, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:09 (nine years ago) link
Joyce Carol Oates @JoyceCarolOates · 3h 3 hours agoCreator of "Mad Men" could not discover a single profound/ dramatic defining act for "Don Draper" w/ which to conclude saga.
...when old ppl tweeting goes wrong
― slothroprhymes, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:09 (nine years ago) link
Wow this was a great ending. I like the ambiguity of the very end too, it's just as plausible that after that last shot Don went back to work and made that ad, or 15 minutes later hysterically threw himself off the cliff.
Everyone got happy endings, so yay. So glad Joan got rid of that rich controlling jerk and is running her own business.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:09 (nine years ago) link
hah that guy bolted at the first signs of life, so outta there
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:10 (nine years ago) link
nothing i've said is pejorative. i pretty much love this show unreservedly, flaws and all. im using melodrama as a loose classification for a type of storytelling that the show generally engages in. beautiful people behaving badly and, often, as you put it, pretty "lurid" plots. soap opera doesnt fit because they tend to be more or less open ended.
― ryan, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:11 (nine years ago) link
i feel like the ppl detracting from the finale wanted there to be some sort of explosive ending, and like, what the fuck, this isn't breaking bad or an action show, he was never gonna die dramatically onscreen or do some otherwise insane huge gesture
― slothroprhymes, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:11 (nine years ago) link
nor was anyone else
― slothroprhymes, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:12 (nine years ago) link
there are aspects of melodrama but if someone was like what kind of show is this and you were all "a melodrama" that wld not be a very good description
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:12 (nine years ago) link
haha fair enough--and not totally different from what im trying to say!
― ryan, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:13 (nine years ago) link
Thought it was funny all the warnings Roger was throwing out, so glad they didn't kill off any characters on screen. People are horrible.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:13 (nine years ago) link
it's a melodrama, a very good one.
― ryan, Monday, May 18, 2015 12:52 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:13 (nine years ago) link
you can quote the rest of what i said too!
― ryan, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:16 (nine years ago) link
anecdote in this Salon wrapup def captures the mind of the typical "creative director":
“Mad Men” owes an enormous debt to “The Conquest of Cool” by Thomas Frank, a 1997 academic text that examines how what we see as the progressive, inclusive themes of the ’60s were in fact outright manufactured by advertisers in order to mold a new generation of consumers and a new kind of “hip consumerism.” It’s a book that changed the way I thought about the era—and irrevocably affected the way I see advertising, too. It’s also a book that articulates the really awful truths underpinning “Mad Men.” Don Draper didn’t write that advertisement because someone named Bob Backer did; Don didn’t believe in his meditation at Big Sur because, among other things, he never existed. But people did go to Big Sur to attempt to make their lives better; people chanted “om” many times, hoping for peace and harmony. Irony and cynicism prevent us from really feeling that Don might have gotten somewhere with his meditations in California. But that’s just because we’ve all learned our lessons too well—if there is something true or pure or beautiful in the world, then someone has made it into an advertisement to sell a product. We distrust because we know better...
One line from Coca-Cola’s official history of “I’d Like to Buy the World a Coke” made me laugh. Billy Davis, the music director for the Coke account, had a problem with the idea for the spot when it was pitched to him. He said: “Well, if I could do something for everybody in the world, it would not be to buy them a Coke… I’d buy everyone a home first and share with them in peace and love.” Backer, the creative director, responded with one of the most confident, full-of-shit lines of spin in history: “OK, that sounds good. Let’s write that and I’ll show you how Coke fits right into the concept.”
http://www.salon.com/2015/05/18/mad_men_finale_recap_someday_people_are_going_to_brag_that_they_worked_with_you/
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:16 (nine years ago) link
we've had this debate every season. it's a melodrama, a very good one.
― ryan, Monday, May 18, 2015 12:52 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:16 (nine years ago) link
never mind.
― ryan, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:17 (nine years ago) link
just admit that u were playing the role of condescending soap operas are good actually guy in this conversation and we can move on
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:19 (nine years ago) link
i wonder if they'd already planned this ending when roger dropped acid. both him and don going through the counterculture to reach a life epiphany that somehow just allows them to go on being themselves
― Merdeyeux, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:20 (nine years ago) link
yikes im sorry if i came across condescending but i literally did not mean to be "soap operas are actually good" because i don't really think they're good or bad? just a thing that's out there. like melodramas and middlebrow entertainment. im for it all, if it's done well. peace!
― ryan, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:24 (nine years ago) link
nothing personal im just a student of this conversation and its patterns
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:25 (nine years ago) link
fwiw i watched the young in the restless and high school and it was actually good.
― ryan, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:26 (nine years ago) link
in high school
melodrama's can be concerned with society! i just dont see it as a dig. it's also middlebrow. that's also fine! it's ok everyone.
― ryan, Monday, May 18, 2015 12:54 PM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i mean this is better than the usual stage 2 rejoinder but m/l cannon
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:27 (nine years ago) link
real soap operas are kind of amazing and bizarre forms
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:28 (nine years ago) link
they just like churn on and on and move sooo slowly can u imagine writing one, heavy purgatory vibes
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:29 (nine years ago) link
i would say MM partly belongs to a genre that peaked in the '50s in films and live TV drama, the Soul-Searching Corporate Man Drama -- practiced by Serling, Chayefsky, The Apartment, The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit and others, all acknowledged by Weiner.
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:29 (nine years ago) link
so i watched game of thrones after mad men and now hear the theme song lyrics as "Man Whoooo... drinks at work / Man Whooo ... drinks at work / drinks at work drinks at work drinks at work."
― entry-level umami (mild bleu cheese vibes) (s.clover), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:31 (nine years ago) link
xps: (my only point with that post was that we don't need to be anxious about mad men really "deserving" all this discussion and/or analysis--and that calling it a soap opera or melodrama isn't something that adds anything to the discussion as far as i can tell, as if we need to establish that it's not a soap opera before taking it seriously or not.)
i like the idea of the Soul-Searching Corporate Man Drama notion, here perhaps fleshed out against a backdrop of other (though also limited) experiences of that time.
― ryan, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:34 (nine years ago) link
If something reaches me emotionally, which Mad Men did, many times, I think it's worth analyzing, whatever you call it.
― clemenza, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:36 (nine years ago) link
imo the defining thing about soap operas is that they constantly inject some sort of interpersonal drama and have no real ending -- the assumption is that you will show up daily and watch some slice of life until all the people on screen kill each other or die
― ultimate american sock (mh), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:37 (nine years ago) link
um this is ilx soap operas are actually more important than "serious" dramas
TS soap operas vs teen pop
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:39 (nine years ago) link
otm
― ultimate american sock (mh), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:39 (nine years ago) link
The more I think about it the more I like the reading that Don left the ashram and went home to come up w the Coke ad. It has the right amount of cynicism and hope all rolled into one.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:41 (nine years ago) link
someone a few weeks ago mentioned that mad men doesn't get enough credit for being really funny and i was reminded of that with this episode a few times. one of the funnier episodes over all, even. especially the peggy scenes.
watching the reruns over the past week was impressive too--it just sucks you right back in. feel like 98% of everything Roger said in the series was somehow hilarious and amazing.
― ryan, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:41 (nine years ago) link
Weiner is doing an interview w/ audience at the NY Public Library this week, so i'm sure "Did Don do the Coke ad?" will be asked.
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:42 (nine years ago) link
ya roger has the perfect smug man one liners u want to hate him but... you cant
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:42 (nine years ago) link
Roger didn't like Psycho or The Apartment, so I can hate him.
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:43 (nine years ago) link
that interpretation seems so unnecessarily literal to me, sorry
xxp
― Οὖτις, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:43 (nine years ago) link
you know what else bummed me out about this episode (am I really the only person who felt that Stan-Peggy scene was terrible?) was that Harry did not get punished for being such a worthless shitbag - would've liked him to receive some comeuppance but eh
― Οὖτις, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:44 (nine years ago) link
i liked stan-peggy :)
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:45 (nine years ago) link
especially the peggy scenes
one of the marathon episodes i caught was a season 5 one where don is repeatedly calling peggy at the office trying to figure out where megan is and upon receiving one of the calls peggy picks up and shouts "PIZZA HOUSE" into it and i died laughing
― slothroprhymes, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:46 (nine years ago) link
don's consciousness expanding until it becomes one with the universe in the form of a coke ad is a pretty amazing ending. don literally making the coke ad is less amazing but also acceptable.
stan-peggy was a little hasty, which is why it made me think of the cocaine scene earlier. it certainly fits thematically with everything else in the episode. it was worth it for moss's performance in that scene though.
― ryan, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:46 (nine years ago) link
If Don didn't go back, then what is your take on it? All of the characters remarking "Oh he does this, he'll be back", Peggy making it clear that he would be welcomed back, etc. Don finding inner peace wouldn't mean he would have to go travelling or live on a hippie commune or something. He could be content and secure in his person and his position in life and bring that back to the only place he has ever really felt at home.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:47 (nine years ago) link
I don't think it matters whether the character of Don Draper did the Coke ad or not! It's one of those things where people forget that fiction is a line of thought as much as it is a narrative of events.
Don Draper didn't create the Coke ad. The idea of Don Draper, broken advertising man who experiences spiritual enlightenment, created the ad.
― ultimate american sock (mh), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:47 (nine years ago) link
after taking a few years off from the show it was noticeable how much more confident peggy was, like her off handed sarcasm "anything for a friend" when joan offers a ton of money for that side work was so not the old uptight peggy
― lag∞n, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:47 (nine years ago) link
Roger flopping back in bed in the last ep was a genuine *fans self* moment.
― Norse Jung (Eric H.), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:47 (nine years ago) link
ryan seems to know what I'm saying
the spirit of Don is with the spirit of all those other advertisers in the fictional advertising land in the sky
― ultimate american sock (mh), Monday, 18 May 2015 17:48 (nine years ago) link
did tony get whacked/did don write the ad
― slothroprhymes, Monday, 18 May 2015 17:48 (nine years ago) link