Most of season seven consists of Loach'ian discussions amongst the Brotherhood of the Banners about the true way to achieve an uprising amongst the peasants. Then there's some boobs, then some more discussion.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, May 19, 2015 1:51 PM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lmao
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 04:03 (nine years ago) link
It's horrible how well this workshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VTkL62YnTA
― tsrobodo, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 04:17 (nine years ago) link
Brilliant end.
― Madison Dumbbarfer (Leee), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 05:08 (nine years ago) link
BTW I'm pretty sure I've been in that Dorne palace where everything kicked off. Is it the Alcazar of Seville?
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 18:47 (nine years ago) link
yeah we were pretty sure it was, and it was: http://scribblerinseville.com/filming-game-of-thrones-in-sevilles-alcazar/
― anonanon, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 19:17 (nine years ago) link
nice spot
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 19:29 (nine years ago) link
so #sansagate is a thing
― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 19:58 (nine years ago) link
....what
― slothroprhymes, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 19:59 (nine years ago) link
do you just mean the negative reactions themselves or is there some creepy counterattack defense thing as well, i am literally always paranoid that that MRA shit is right around the corner :/
― slothroprhymes, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:00 (nine years ago) link
A short pause to mark the realisation that from now on *gate will evoke MRAs chimping it up rather than a national scandal that did for a US President.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:05 (nine years ago) link
i started to read a thinkpiece abt heres why the rape was not necessary to advance the plot but im p sure the person didnt understand what the words plot or necessary meant, guess u wldnt write a piece like that if u did
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:12 (nine years ago) link
Considering it was a change from the books, they could have done it differently
― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:30 (nine years ago) link
The Mary Sue has a solid view on it.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:35 (nine years ago) link
yes, I read that. People should read that. I think there are spoilers in it though.
― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:36 (nine years ago) link
xposts maybe easier to discuss on the spoiler thread?if we don't know where the plot is going it's p hard to defend a Strong Opinion whether or not the scene was necessary.
― resulting post (rogermexico.), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:38 (nine years ago) link
i think there's a difference between the event happening and whether it needed to be depicted on screen -- so that scene was not necessary, especially considering it wasn't part of source text
― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:41 (nine years ago) link
the equivalent scene in the source text is like infinitely worse than what was shown on the show
― Clay, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:44 (nine years ago) link
i don't buy any of that. if you're still watching after they killed dozens of babies, portrayed incest, exploded a guys head like a watermelon and cut off a guys cock – you have no right to complain. all this "i will never watch the show again" grandstanding is bs. especially if you've read the books and knew this (or something even worse) was coming.
― AKA Thermo Thinwall (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:47 (nine years ago) link
that was an xpost to the marie sue link
― AKA Thermo Thinwall (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:48 (nine years ago) link
The equivalent scene in the source text isn't in the source text though, as it involves a character that isn't in the TV version at all (I realise I'm skirting the thread title here) - anything they did would be a change.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:50 (nine years ago) link
― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:30 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
literarily anything in any work of art could be done differently
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:51 (nine years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, May 20, 2015 4:35 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ha thats the one i stopped read, genuinely odd
I think you're arguing semantic there, but it's obvious what event in the book maps onto the event in the show. xp
― Madison Dumbbarfer (Leee), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:52 (nine years ago) link
it felt gratuitous, esp. in the larger context of the jamie/circe rapey scene from last season that wasn't portrayed as such in the book.
― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:52 (nine years ago) link
if the complaint is that it happened to one character and not another, that's not much of a moral stand to take against the depiction of rape as a cheap device in fiction
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:52 (nine years ago) link
xp -- not to spoil anything, but the only "necessary" things plot wise are:
1. Theon is forced to watch/participate in something horrible Ramsay does to a woman he knew from his time at Winterfell (in the book it was Sansa's bff). 2. Something horrible happens to the woman so that she would want to potentially escape3. Ramsay is an evil sociopath (which could be argued has already been conveyed adequately)
There is a lot of leeway with how to script and visually depict these plot points
― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:56 (nine years ago) link
I used to think this show was just about power struggles, but I'm beginning to think it's core reason for existing is to continually test the audience's capacity for shock
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:58 (nine years ago) link
the power struggle stuff has gradually receded and/or become incomprehensibly convoluted but the murderboobs quotient abides as a central focus
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 20:59 (nine years ago) link
but I'm beginning to think it's core reason for existing is to continually test the audience's capacity for shock
surely this has been obvious from the finale of season one?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:00 (nine years ago) link
the mary sue piece isnt badly written or not understandable per se but its def moving the goalposts, like why didn't you stop watching the series pilot when drogo has sex with dany in a way that most rational people (myself included!) would term rape or at the very fucking least deficient consent
that said, perhaps the most pressing real problem is the way the camera lingers on theon's face during it, and while i understand that as a way to not actually show us what's happening and kind of appreciate it for that reason, it is inevitably going to imply that the assault is notable in the story for how it makes theon/reek feel rather than uh the victim of sexual assault - whether that's what the benioff/weiss braintrust intended or not
― slothroprhymes, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:01 (nine years ago) link
Did anyone read Alyssa Rosenberg's piece? I thought it was interesting:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2015/05/19/game-of-thrones-has-always-been-a-show-about-rape/
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:02 (nine years ago) link
do people not remember that there is a much more visually disturbing depiction of sexual violence in the pilot of this show? Of a main character? And that character then falls in love with her rapist-husband? this is not remotely new territory for game of thrones is all.
the pilot also includes incest and attempted murder of a child so I guess it's forgiven if no one remembers one of a thousand revolting crimes that are the foundation of this show.
xpost!
― Clay, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:02 (nine years ago) link
Rosenberg piece is great iirc
― Clay, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:03 (nine years ago) link
and they didn't even address it in their little inside the episode feature.
― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:03 (nine years ago) link
i wonder to what extent this is more audience upset over sympathetic characters experiencing terrible things (ned, red wedding, etc) but it's being mixed up as moral outrage bc the terrible thing is a rape.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:04 (nine years ago) link
haha yeah that was def a red flag that something was up. I guess it took awhile for me to realize that this show is not about characters, politics, religion, gender etc., that shit all takes a back seat to I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY MURDERED THOSE BOOBS-type nonsense
xxp
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:04 (nine years ago) link
oh ffs shakey
― slothroprhymes, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:05 (nine years ago) link
eh I've been tired of this show's ugly nonsense for awhile now
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:06 (nine years ago) link
The complaint isn't just that it happened to another character. The complaint is that it happened to a character who's experience couldn't be shown. So the books didn't fail to show the victim's point of view, that was impossible. But the show changed the story, then failed anyways. At least that's how I understand the criticism re book-to-show.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:06 (nine years ago) link
I did shed a tear when they cut off Ned's boobs, it's true
― DJP, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:07 (nine years ago) link
feel like saying that the show is stupid and gratuitous is fine and prob so obvious as to no need mentioning, outlining what you feel is necessary to advance the plot is just like such bizarre behavior, as is qualifying ones own writing about the show as promotion
Before we dive into why we felt this was a choice which would cause us to stop promoting the show, allow us to say something very important: rape is not a necessary plot device. Really think about that before shouting “creative freedom” in our direction, please.
that piece literally is one of the strangest alt-universe approaches to art and what life is like its hard to wrap my mind around
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:08 (nine years ago) link
i never made it this far in the books so i don't know if there are things about the alternative storyline that redeem it more in the eyes of critics of the show. it does seem to me that sansa's pov in the show has not been marginalized, and was not in that scene either. ymmv.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:08 (nine years ago) link
a lot of people are representing their feelings as "this is the last straw" -- some of those who have read the books (like presumably the Mary Sue writers), see this differently because it was something the writers made up with the idea that, "If you're going to make something up, this is what you come up with?"
― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:09 (nine years ago) link
is that like a fan fiction website or something?
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:10 (nine years ago) link
that said, perhaps the most pressing real problem is the way the camera lingers on theon's face during it, and while i understand that as a way to not actually show us what's happening and kind of appreciate it for that reason, it is inevitably going to imply that the assault is notable in the story for how it makes theon/reek feel rather than uh the victim of sexual assault - whether that's what the benioff/weiss braintrust intended or not― slothroprhymes, Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:01 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― slothroprhymes, Wednesday, May 20, 2015 9:01 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
my theory is this is all a set up for theon killing ramsey somehow during the battle w/ stannis. like the only way you can go back to liking theon in any way is for him to get rid of an even more worthless human being.
― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:10 (nine years ago) link
We don't really know what they came up with though. We've seen the event but not the aftermath. That's an important part of the context.
― polyphonic, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:10 (nine years ago) link
i don't know if there are things about the alternative storyline that redeem it more in the eyes of critics of the show
Hahahaha no.
― Madison Dumbbarfer (Leee), Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:11 (nine years ago) link
I wonder what could have made the creators of the show think that throwing in some extra rape wouldn't be a big deal
things to think baout
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:11 (nine years ago) link
it's not extra rape tho even - it's the same quantity of rape, just happening between different characters
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:12 (nine years ago) link
feel like ive seen more "why is everyone up in arms about this rape!?" sentiment than actual "up in arms about this rape" sentiment
― max, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 21:12 (nine years ago) link