Forced! Exhausted!
― Hadrian VIII, Sunday, 14 June 2015 20:26 (eight years ago) link
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/the-dowdy-patient/?_r=0
Years of psychotherapy training had given me no guidance in how to deal with the staunchly dowdy patient. Starting early in our training, we psychiatry residents spent innumerable hours addressing issues raised by inappropriately seductive patients. How best to deal with patients who flirt in session, who wear inappropriate attire, who ignore boundaries, who try, whether consciously or not, to lure you away from “therapeutic neutrality”? There were articles, books and lectures that helped us deal with a patient’s “erotic transference” and our own “countertransference reactions.”
But advice about the patient who refuses to be attractive? No.
Maybe a female or gay male therapist would have had an easier time addressing this topic with Greta. But for me, as a straight male working with a straight female patient, every option seemed blocked. Basically, no matter how I tried to put it, I would be saying, “I find you unappealing.”
― Immediate Follower (NA), Friday, 19 June 2015 16:24 (eight years ago) link
What the Christ, disbar this guy
― jennifer islam (silby), Friday, 19 June 2015 16:28 (eight years ago) link
jesus, what an asshole. shouldn't you lose your license for shit like that?
When I eventually tried again to discuss the issue of her appearance, things did indeed play out this way. Greta began to find me slightly creepy. Since previous therapists had never brought up this topic with her, she came to the conclusion that there must be something wrong with me for mentioning it.
uh, yes
― here i am in the land of large breakfasts (Doctor Casino), Friday, 19 June 2015 16:28 (eight years ago) link
ffs
― difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 19 June 2015 16:47 (eight years ago) link
i read that! just sounded like toughlove to me.
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, 19 June 2015 16:56 (eight years ago) link
this basically was his IDing "so not gonna happen" as her Achilles
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, 19 June 2015 16:57 (eight years ago) link
ummmmmm....... no.
i mean i guess i could imagine situations or circumstances where appearance would be on the table, for example if the patient had known issues or anxieties or feelings about her appearance. but basically this is just the male shrink sitting there, apparently tuning out while the person talks about her life and actual concerns -- even, in fact, while her life is improving massively in the areas she seems concerned about -- drumming his fingers and thinking to himself "yeah but DUHHH dress better you frump!" and then being so confident that this was appropriate that he brings it up to her, is surprised she doesn't buy it (but congratulates himself for that, cause clearly that means he's touching some important psychological nerve rather than just being an asshole). and then the stupid comparison to erotic transference and all that. it's not equivalent, it has nothing to do with that. and he tells the whole story to the world, apparently expecting a chorus of "am i right, fellas?"
fuck that! she didn't hire a makeover specialist or even a relationship coach. women are not put on the earth to dress the way their therapists, or anybody else, think is pretty. his answer to that is, "hey, that's the society we live in!" well guess what pal, that makes you part of the fucking problem. btw how does he expect her to react when she reads this in the nation's newspaper of record? wow, great breakthrough. real tough love there.
― here i am in the land of large breakfasts (Doctor Casino), Friday, 19 June 2015 17:08 (eight years ago) link
yeah it's like he's all yadda yadda anxiety etc but
― difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 19 June 2015 17:32 (eight years ago) link
casino otm
dr may just be writing this in a much more inappropriate voice than he would use in his sessions but unless she is specifically seeking feedback on that issue, step the fuck off...and even then, if she is asking for help on the dating front good lord there are better ways to address it as a *psychotherapist*
fuck that dr forever is how i feel with his garbagey frumpshaming opinion piece
― difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 19 June 2015 17:36 (eight years ago) link
Details have been altered to protect patient privacy.
Huh. What's the protocol on this sort of publication of patient information exactly? I'd have thought patient privacy involved more than anonymity. I hope he got consent to print this.
― jmm, Friday, 19 June 2015 17:39 (eight years ago) link
Now, he holds two parties — at Christmas and during the summer — in Cabarete, Dominican Republic, where he recently became a resident (it has a low tax rate). The cost: About $25,000 per party, he said. Last August he celebrated his 40th birthday there, surrounded by friends and family.
Mr. Grinda said he has learned a lot from his very big downgrade.
― marcos, Friday, 19 June 2015 17:39 (eight years ago) link
Which, at least to Greta, would have raised the reasonable question, Why on earth would she want me to find her appealing? The whole thing reeked of grossness. Like it or not, in raising the issue, I could be viewed as endorsing regressive cultural norms, implicitly justifying or defending the regrettable behavior of my gender.
yes i agree it does reek of grossness, you are very perceptive dr. hellerstein
― marcos, Friday, 19 June 2015 17:45 (eight years ago) link
^^^ transference
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 19 June 2015 17:48 (eight years ago) link
but this felt different than usual nytimes, reminded me a little of like old-fashioned new yorker "talk of the town"
yeah, it's got the arch understatement of old ToTTs down cold
― transparent play for gifs (Tracer Hand), Friday, 19 June 2015 19:20 (eight years ago) link
i am basically a gay male frump and fully acknowlege it's why i've never had a serious bf.
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, 19 June 2015 19:22 (eight years ago) link
Are you sure
― Immediate Follower (NA), Friday, 19 June 2015 19:33 (eight years ago) link
no
sometimes i just blame it on the boogie
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, 19 June 2015 19:33 (eight years ago) link
or that gay men have the worst fucking taste on the planet
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Friday, 19 June 2015 19:34 (eight years ago) link
I like how he takes pains to put the word "dowdy" in someone else's mouth at the beginning of the piece. Nice self-exoneration there.
Also, I wonder what world that guy lives in where "unfashionable hairstyles" are a primary barrier to relationship formation.
― intheblanks, Friday, 19 June 2015 21:08 (eight years ago) link
Every therapist at some point discovers his limitations, be it a type of person he can’t help or an issue he is unable to successfully address. For whatever reason — a poor match of patient and doctor? my own deficiencies as a therapist? the complexities of our society’s gender relations? — the dowdy patient was mine.
Maybe this whole piece is his way of saying "Sexy Patients Only, Please"
― intheblanks, Friday, 19 June 2015 21:12 (eight years ago) link
Psychiatric Help 5¢The Doctor Is InNo Fat Chicks
― here i am in the land of large breakfasts (Doctor Casino), Friday, 19 June 2015 21:32 (eight years ago) link
I looked at dude's background and not sure how he can claim "years of psychotherapy training." Dude went to med school, then did psych residency. None of that involves training or practice in actual psychotherapy. His deficiencies in psychotherapy training are painfully obvious. Dude should stick to meeting with patients for 10 minutes every 3 months to write scripts.
I can and will totally nail this guy in the balls should I ever run into him.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Friday, 19 June 2015 23:24 (eight years ago) link
i'm generally inclined to shrug and say 'ugh, lame' but then there's the fact that he thought writing this in the new york times was a good idea
― mookieproof, Friday, 19 June 2015 23:31 (eight years ago) link
yeah, absolutely. But I am also shocked at this psychiatrist's comically shallow view of human psychology! "If you'd just do something about those shoes, then you'd land a man!" This is sub-Cosmo idiocy.
― intheblanks, Friday, 19 June 2015 23:42 (eight years ago) link
Like how many people do you know who don't have conventionally "good" fashion sense, and have been able to enter and maintain relationships that fulfill their needs?
― intheblanks, Friday, 19 June 2015 23:43 (eight years ago) link
Just to be clear, I know like a million people who fit that description. Re-reading my question, I worry that I'm stating the opposite!
― intheblanks, Friday, 19 June 2015 23:44 (eight years ago) link
apparently this guy teaches at columbia. wow. i'd hope to see some blowback on campus, but it's summer and things are pretty quiet.
― here i am in the land of large breakfasts (Doctor Casino), Friday, 19 June 2015 23:58 (eight years ago) link
really the achilles heel of campus activism, do whatever the crap you want on summer break (results may vary at Dartmouth)
― jennifer islam (silby), Saturday, 20 June 2015 01:51 (eight years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIX9lRKUkAAyUcj.jpg
― mookieproof, Thursday, 25 June 2015 21:06 (eight years ago) link
smdh
literally smdh
― from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Thursday, 25 June 2015 21:12 (eight years ago) link
her uterus literally aches
― mookieproof, Thursday, 25 June 2015 21:16 (eight years ago) link
Key theme of that article is that they're better than everyone, and that is what truly makes it unfair that they have to make basic human choices about finances.
― intheblanks, Thursday, 25 June 2015 21:44 (eight years ago) link
It's a strange mourning process I can't really discuss openly with others, mainly because people our age often don't plan as meticulously as we do.
It's our quiet sacrifice but it's also our beautiful life, well-earned and fully-lived.
― intheblanks, Thursday, 25 June 2015 21:47 (eight years ago) link
Can't believe that isn't Clickhole.
― schwantz, Thursday, 25 June 2015 21:56 (eight years ago) link
We planned our family. It's something unique to us as superior people. We call it family planning. We're the first to ever think of it.
― from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Thursday, 25 June 2015 22:11 (eight years ago) link
quietly
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 25 June 2015 22:12 (eight years ago) link
and not to be discussed openly
like in a blog article
Jesus Christ she's a stay at home mom. Go back to work and you can probably afford that third kid you twit.
― from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Thursday, 25 June 2015 22:15 (eight years ago) link
ehhh idk about that
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 25 June 2015 22:19 (eight years ago) link
She covers that in the article! Going back to work means they'd have to pay for childcare for all three kids, which would eat up the entire extra salary she would make as a teacher.
― intheblanks, Thursday, 25 June 2015 22:22 (eight years ago) link
haaaaa these comments
― Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 25 June 2015 22:24 (eight years ago) link
Emily Sue Lund · Chicago, IllinoisI couldn't even make it all the way through. It's terribly written and makes me wonder if her uterus aches because someone punched her in it after hearing her sad little tale of woe.Reply · · 5 · about an hour ago
lol
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 25 June 2015 22:29 (eight years ago) link
I couldn't get that far.
― from batman to balloon dog (carl agatha), Thursday, 25 June 2015 23:17 (eight years ago) link
This is the American dream and we are in it, living it, every day, just the four of us.
I do appreciate her restraint in not adding "Fuck everyone else." to the end of that sentence.
That said, this is pretty standard issue upper middle class suburban nonsense from Elle magazine, not really on the same level as what fills up the read of this thread (the national paper of record's tendency to fill its pages with flattering puff pieces on the incredibly wealthy and actually powerful)
― intheblanks, Thursday, 25 June 2015 23:28 (eight years ago) link
the rest of this thread, I mean….not "the read of this thread"
All these articles about how upper-middle class families save money with a stay-at-home parent, I'm not sure how my parents and every single family I grew up around (all two-worker working/middle class) managed to survive.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 25 June 2015 23:29 (eight years ago) link
I hope they pull the trigger on downsizing and it turns out she's infertile.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Thursday, 25 June 2015 23:30 (eight years ago) link