The Eurozone Crisis Thread

Sounds as good an alternative to what is currently being proposed.

greece should sue the british for $50b for stealing the elgin marbles

ppl who have to make shit happen

serious, grown-ups, rite?

lol u a power worshipper

Obviously not democratically elected politicians. Anyway, when's the UK referendum, I've changed the position I've held all my adult life and now want out of the EU ASAP.

We can't live in this Marxist utopia folks. Bills have to be paid, and in full too.

Hey if all the EU did was listen to Russell Brand twats like the IMF nothing would ever get done.

this is a textbook case of disaster capitalism, which naomi klein called a ways back

http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine/resources/disaster-capitalism-in-action/tags/greece

i hope they teach this at wharton and other MBA programs! destroy and privatize!

lol Naomi Klein rite on!

am I doing dis rite I've tryed not to spell anyting rite!

I think this sums it up best

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJzJhTtW8AAcnqg.png

not really

y knot

ooo dem wotten germans

lol u spelt 'rotten' rong

dem wotan germans

ruffly 90 purr scent of bale out munney went to banx not greeeeece

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/7/1/greek-bailout-money-went-to-banks-not-greece.html

now that's how you grow a national economy

lol Wotan tbf

omg to banx! I fot it went to the govt and then to ministers and then straight to the poor well the scales well and truly etc now

financial depressions are hilarious! 25% unemployment is funny!

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/unemployment-rate

lol @ greece!

wait

if we agree not to lol at Greece, if we were lolling at Greece, then its going to be OK for Greece?

and you say Naomi Klein told you this?

man that's fucked up she should really be more careful about what she puts out there

everything is going to be okay for everyone forever as long as we continue privatizing profits and socializing losses

^ grown up serious ppl making shit happen

tch tch stop laughing at Greece

darraghnebb

This is the least justified position of condescension since Raccoon Tanuki in his early 2015 prime.

lol milo

I for one am glad that someone is finally speaking truth to power

I'm....not sure what valuable discussion I've been detailing here by offering dissent at what seemed a suitable level for the audience at the time. flopson and xxxyyyz haven't posted all day and all matt offers is rote meta zing based on obscure jol beef.

the rest pff

rote meta zing based on obscure jol beef

wait I thought this was your schtick

Hey, hold on, Jol Out has made it across the Atlantic?

xyzzzz was the 1st person to respond to you d

I know but not since then, besides I've an email from him circuitously provoking me about sf that I want to consider in full before responding

lol at jol out travelling power

OK I'll take evening off from thread I promise God bless all here

Ah ok it's just not always 100% clear where the "of course I'm being asinine what do you expect talking to these plebs" section starts exactly

Legitimately think there could be a Brexit now after this. You've got the UKIP crowd, and a decent chunk of Tories who want out. Their position will be unchanged, although some Eurosceptic Tories are up in arms about the treatment of Greece from a national sovereignty point of view - e.g. that vile MEP Dan Hannon.

There's always been the old left anti-EU crowd, - Tony Benn and that - although fairly insignificant in recent years, there will no doubt be an upswing in left-motivated anti-EU sentiment. In Scotland anyway I'm seeing a lot of disillusion from left-wing internationalist, pro-independence, erstwhile pro-EU types.

Yes, fuck this shower of free market shitheels.

Kinda feel that Brits have to get really desperate before voting against status quo - fear that you personally might be worse off tends to trump all other concerns, cf well you know

Darragh I was j/k. I don't mention sf to get a rise out of you - they are part of the wider picture.

what a tool

― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Monday, 13 July 2015 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Are you going to explain this? Varoufakis isn't ofering any solutions and I know the guy's personality rubs off wrong - and I'm sure plenty would deny the picture he paints of the discussions he took part in - but from that interview you have to deal with the fundamental problem. Do the Greeks get tied under an auserity program until 2059 or whatever?

I doubt this is over. i) this might not get through, ii) even if it does it will be hard to implement, especially given that Syriza have a strong mandate. A bunch of broken-up, discredited technocrats aren't going to simply run with the show overnight.

Podemos and the like are looking at what Germany is doing and they now will have other negotiating tactics when trying to 'step out of line'. In the long-term the ideals of solidarity that a lot of people have given to this European project were damaged last night.

what are the odds on the Greek Parliament not accepting this ridiculous "deal"

Xp - well from the rest of your post we obviously have very different takes on this but beyond that Varoufakis has consistently made this whole thing to be about him. "They just couldn't get what I was telling them, they were out there to get me, read my blog for more details", while not taking a single initiative domestically. Oh and had time for a nice glossy vanity photo shoot with wifey but couldn't be bother coming to parliament to vote on one of the most decisive votes in its modern history cause he had a party to go on his island with his daughter. *SORRY :))*
To be fair, this often happens when academics get involved in politics and are afraid to get their hands dirty, but Varoufakis never really tried to get off his patronising high horse

I partly agree - Tsipras is the politician (Varoufakis isn't even a member of Syriza). From that article he has done a lot of advising and has been bruised and taken out by people who do the dirty work. But again he did put in the hours at the negotiating table to try and work it out. Tough to know what is the best course. Syriza are an odd coalition of people, not all of whom are politicians and technocrats - that is a good thing, but it shows. A lot of the left on Twitter are criticising their tactics, but they didn't win votes and Syriza were able to.

That explanation for not taking part doesn't put him in the best light however he had a diff take on the situation and so not entirely surprising he was going to abstain from voting.

Indeed Varoufakis seems like a self-promoting blowhard but that hardly renders him out of place in European politics. Maybe he was right, maybe he wasn't, but in the end he wasn't even supported by his own party.

I can also report me and Darragh are fine, judging from email I just got :-)

judas

Dunno how much this will affect the UK referendum tbh. Fiscal conservatives will be happy that Greece has been railroaded into "getting its house in order". Those on the left will wonder whether the austerity agenda of the EU is materially worse than the austerity agenda of Osborne et al. Eurosceptics gonna Eurosceptic, as before. As wins says, people have to feel a direct imminent threat or benefit before ditching the status quo.

parallels imo btwn Collins/dev and the treaty in tsipras/varoufakis?

Man, some of the comments... what did people expect, that Greece (and everybody else from then on) wouldn't have to pay back any of its debt and that the free billions would keep on coming without any attempt at changing the bottomless pit nature of the Greek economy? It's easy to be generous with someone else's money...

Oh, and media people: yes, that Krugman guy won some major prize, years ago. That doesn't mean he is always right about everything.

BTW, of course I'm not blind for the emo arguments abput the suffering citizens. But if I don't pay my bills, my kids gets evicted too.

That is moronic.

household spending /= govt spending. any deal without debt relief is almost just managed decline for greece ny this point. let's let it sink slowly into the sea