The Eurozone Crisis Thread

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/14/the_rise_and_fall_of_the_german_empire_what_greeces_crippling_bailout_deal_reveals_about_the_future_of_europe/

i don't think inner conviction and honesty about means and ends is much the preserve of the anti-utopians any more than the utopians. for a conversation to serve much purpose we could all do one another the courtesy of accepting that this shit matters...if only to our own psyches

this is v true. hope i didn’t seem to suggest otherwise, that was not my intention
‘anti-utopianism’ for me not a settled position but one among several conflicting bents/bends of thought, it’s fraught & i do call it into question; it needs to be continually called into question
you’re right that, uninterrogated, it can sometimes disguise bad stuff; uninterrogated utopianism, likewise

I don't know what he was like in negotiations or how to judge his domestic efforts but I broadly agree with Varoufakis re: Europe, I think that's where the most fundamental problems lie & that they have not been addressed thusfar. If the EU really is less ambitious about its future then I want out

love how krugman is calling this "the sack of athens"

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/14/faithocrats/?module=BlogPost-Title&version=Blog%20Main&contentCollection=Opinion&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs®ion=Body

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/14/the-pause-of-2014/?module=BlogPost-Title&version=Blog%20Main&contentCollection=Opinion&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs®ion=Body

preach it professor!

drash no i didn't think you were being cynical nor was i singling you out, i was really trying to get at an honest answer for deems' questions

appreciated obv

IMF attacks EU over bailout

marxist fucks

The ILXor Monetary Fund

noted commie fuck dave cameron calling for debt relief, I see

https://youtu.be/P84tN0z4jqM

“You’re using the system!”

Verhofstadt stands to gain personally from greek water privatisation
http://www.thepressproject.gr/details_en.php?aid=62406

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

http://i.imgur.com/O04OvVy.png

Deal passed by Greeks but the exit feels merely delayed.

unless the central government takes the opportunity of this crisis to evolve into a transfer union, i think they should get the hell out (same with spain, italy, and portugal) and take the name "europe" with them. the germans can call their new empire their new land Rope

money for old rope

lol flopson

i think they should get the hell out (same with spain, italy, and portugal)

... UK.

not in situ

WaPo subheader makes me go uhhhh

For both Germany and its chancellor, Angela Merkel, the pound of flesh extracted this week to open fresh rescue talks with Athens appears to have struck a global nerve.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/16/merkel-gambling-away-germanys-reputation-over-greece-says-habermas

they've lost habermas

in order to allow Greece to get back on its feet, the debts which the IMF has deemed “highly unsustainable” need to be restructured

the outcome does not make sense in economic terms because of the toxic mixture of necessary structural reforms of state and economy with further neoliberal impositions that will completely discourage an exhausted Greek population and kill any impetus to growth

the outcome means that a helpless European Council is effectively declaring itself politically bankrupt: the de facto relegation of a member state to the status of a protectorate openly contradicts the democratic principles of the European Union. Finally, the outcome is disgraceful because forcing the Greek government to agree to an economically questionable, predominantly symbolic privatisation fund cannot be understood as anything other than an act of punishment against a left-wing government

It’s hard to see how more damage could be done.

The Bank of Piraeus lost the maximum 30% shares are allowed to fall in a single day when trading resumed yesterday.

They reopened again today and promptly fell another 30% before being suspended. All five of the key Greek banks have fallen by 25% or more for two days in a row. National Bank of Greece is recovering a bit.

Tsipras has resigned and called a snap election to outmanoeuvre the Syriza rebels who have left the government even more reliant on the backing of right-wing parties to get anything done.

Germany has highlighted the refugee crisis as more of a threat to the current working of the EU than Greece, though. They claim to expect 800k asylum applications this year and say that unless something is done to ensure that all member states are willing to accept refugees, Schengen has no future.

who would want to be in a political union with germany

Syriza's left-wing rebels have formally split and now form the third largest party in the Greek parliament, behind Syriza, and the main right-wing opposition, but ahead of Golden Dawn.

id like to see the left-syriza win the election and then refuse to pay the debt and leave the eu. just to see what sort of shit-storm would ensue. although perhaps I shouldn't be so keen to think of the fate of millions of people (in Greece, in the Eurozone, worldwide due to the economic shockwaves) in terms of how entertaining it might be for me.

i don't see any non-horrible way out of neolib economics and neolib economics are killing us so chocks away

planned grexit is least worst shitstorm imo, but euro elites just can't let the dream die

heard Tsipras this morning saying he wanted to stay in and change EU policy from within, which is...ballsy if nothing else

i think he's also confident that the Greek electorate are in no rush to go back to oligarchy

I still think reform of the EU is the best option but it wld have to be of the variety which I imagine wld be anathema to the current crop of EU elites

read some article (in spanish, on some blog, on my phone) that apparently tsipras is pretty popular with the greek people according to latest polling and that there's a good chance he will be forming government, sans the left-wing splitters, but with a larger number of seats.

heard Tsipras this morning saying he wanted to stay in and change EU policy from within, which is...ballsy if nothing else

He is the new David Cameron in other words.

read some article (in spanish, on some blog, on my phone) that apparently tsipras is pretty popular with the greek people according to latest polling and that there's a good chance he will be forming government, sans the left-wing splitters, but with a larger number of seats.

― you too could be called a 'Star' by the Compliance Unit (jim in glasgow), Friday, August 21, 2015 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The Greeks like centre parties, and most of them want to stay in the EU. What Tsipras is offering is a 'lets tackle oligarchs' program.

Elections in Spain are next -- all of this is chipping away at the EU and the Euro. Don't see a good end to this.

it's a bizarre situation though, he's done a complete u-turn on the bailout, literally no different from pasok in that respect now.

elections in spain will be interesting, podemos likely to be one of the main parties, if not forming government, in coalition or otherwise.

then the catalan election comes soon as well, it's being contested as a plebiscite on independence.

I think he had literally no option. It was either chaotic kicking out or compliance.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/07/tspiras-syriza-euro-perry-anderson/

This is a damming piece on everybody.

vv interested to see if podemos poll/vote holds up after syriza/Greece past six months, a separate demonstrable popular momentum for left govt will do more to pin the centre/right than anything Greece does in isolation

xp. i really dislike that comparison of the relations between france and germany, comparing them to the relations between the countires in "the early 40s". seems crude, tasteless and unfair.

jacobin magazine also recently ran an article about srebrenica that downplayed serbian responsibility and sought to place blame on the inaction of bosnian politicians that i found quite hateful.

I agree w/that Jim. Also not sure how easy it would be to put in place alternative plans he talks about as a bargaining tool.

I think the fear vs. anger stuff was on point.

Looks like the Eurosceptic Law & Justice party will have won a majority in the Polish elections. There's speculation that the calls for hardline conservative members of other parties to join them is with a view to forming a super-majority large enough to change the constitution.

We could finally see Jesus being made king in perpetuity.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/10/portuguese-mps-force-minority-government-to-quit-over-austerity

Anti-austerity coalition set to take power in Portugal after all.

Alternative for Germany (AfD) party co-leader Joerg Meuthen was reported on Sunday as saying that Germany would be able to share a common currency with the Netherlands, Austria, Finland or Baltic states because "they have similar cultures of stability like ours. But the French have a different one, not to mention the Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese and Greeks. They don't want austerity at all."

http://en.rfi.fr/europe/20160424-german-populist-afd-suggests-france-be-excluded-euro

The Austrian presidential election result has apparently been annulled, giving the far-right another shot at it.

It's important to note that the Austrian Supreme Court specifically stated that NO evidence of fraud was found, but the Interior Ministry did sloppy work in counting about 70K votes (in an election where about 30K separated the contestants). A shittily written BBC blurb on the decision has been picked up by far right English-speaking schmucks, cleverly getting the concept "election was fraudulent" to be part of the story.

ORF seems to be calling the Austrian election for Van Der Bellen.

^ 53.6% vs 46.6%. I'm suprised actually.

*46.4

Campagne manager from Hofer already congratulated VdB. The votes by post will be counted tomorrow but those are supposed to only increase the lead.