...how?
― goole, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:02 (eight years ago) link
Oops I mean "assembledge"--I just read accumulation in that piece I linked
― supreme problematics (D-40), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:03 (eight years ago) link
lagOOOoooOOOoon
― Trap Queenius (wins), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:03 (eight years ago) link
Idk man because sometimes the conceptual focus in critical theory changes over time?
― supreme problematics (D-40), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:04 (eight years ago) link
the ghosts demand new words to feast on
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:05 (eight years ago) link
I believe it's a deleuze/guattari deal
― supreme problematics (D-40), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:05 (eight years ago) link
― Trap Queenius (wins), Wednesday, July 15, 2015 1:03 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_macgdfyqFW1rwmb58.gif
https://sequelsprequels.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/tumblr_inline_n4pmyequek1svujri.gif
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:07 (eight years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/cPkwGfA.png
freddie backlash in full swing
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:11 (eight years ago) link
I also misspelled "assemblage"--sorry working from my phone
― supreme problematics (D-40), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:12 (eight years ago) link
ah ok
is it supposed to be in french pronunciation like "differance"
― goole, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:16 (eight years ago) link
xps treeship otm upthread re tnc's anti-cartesian materialist ontologyi understand tnc's reasons for using this language, identifying person/self = bodybut ultimately that reductive equation is no less metaphorical in its way, no less a philosophical fiction, than cartesian metaphorsyes it may be philosophically (or politically) clarifying in certain context, & powerful, used for deliberate reasons as tnc does,but as pervasive locution--imo maybe confused/confusing, maybe ultimately counterproductive
― drash, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:22 (eight years ago) link
xps i don't think stoic philosophy has historically been used to justify slavery...?
Yeah, I plucked this passage out of a Bernard Williams essay without knowing its proper context. Looking it up, it's not exactly a justification. Seneca's arguing that slave and slaveowner are, in their essence, equivalent beings and that there are limits to what a slaveowner can "own" in a slave. The slaveowner can't compel crimes or treason since the slave is his/her own moral being. So you could say he's cordoning off what can justifiably be done to slaves from what can't, not justifying the practice as such. I'm not sure if he thinks it needs justification as such.
― jmm, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:32 (eight years ago) link
Roman slavery was p different from colonial-era slavery in some obvious ways
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:34 (eight years ago) link
Is drash just ignoring my post or
― supreme problematics (D-40), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:35 (eight years ago) link
(that's the same kind of reasoning clarence thomas employed in his recent opinion, i think. historically disagreements with stoic-style thought about things like slavery have stemmed more from their being insufficiently disposed to effect social change, possibly in light of being inappropriately satisfied with ethical ideals indifferent to the status quo.)
― j., Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:36 (eight years ago) link
not ignoring, just crossposted(have to think about it)
― drash, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:37 (eight years ago) link
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/02/looking-white-in-the-face/
Postmodern theory tries to interrupt that expression at every stop, to put every word in scare quotes, to put our own presuppositions into question, to make us worry about the murderousness of “we,” and so to get in the habit of asking, “we, who?” I think that what modern philosophers call “pure” reason — the Cartesian ego cogito and Kant’s transcendental consciousness — is a white male Euro-Christian construction.
White is not “neutral.” “Pure” reason is lily white, as if white is not a color or is closest to the purity of the sun, and everything else is “colored.” Purification is a name for terror and deportation, and “white” is a thick, dense, potent cultural signifier that is closely linked to rationalism and colonialism. What is not white is not rational. So white is philosophically relevant and needs to be philosophically critiqued — it affects what we mean by “reason” — and “we” white philosophers cannot ignore it.
― supreme problematics (D-40), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:37 (eight years ago) link
^all this, but also, it's a stylistic affectation
think this is otm. all my right-on activist buds are v. into using "bodies" as a way of describing the victims/targets of institutionalized racism/misogyny but the impression I get is there's a few rhetorical things in motion there beyond direct reference to the discourse in which the usage originated
kinda interesting, a little distracting to me but then again there's a lot of interesting thought/reaction to be had from moments of distraction
― Joan Crawford Loves Chachi, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:40 (eight years ago) link
Xp deej, I read that caputo piece a while ago and have to say I don't really understand where you are supposed to go from the position he staked out. I agree with the idea that philosophical approaches that seek to define the self in a "vaccuum" - with little awareness of the various ways selfhood has been defined at different historical moments/in different cultures - deserve critique. But nonwhite cultures have rarely traditionally understood selfhood in the pure materialist sense. That is just as much of a western construct as the cogito. TNC even says there is a rich tradition of black americans using this idea of self-possession as a coping mechanism for living in a society in which they were not politically free. Is this just a mark of a complacent, or colonized subjectivity? I think that seems like an erasure of black history - to say that the western concepts they have always borrowed from and adapted are not truly theirs, and that their lives are best understood by suspending all of our ordinary categories in favor of a view that posits race, as you said, as an ontological category. I don't know what kind of progress lies at the end of that road. At this moment it seems like the struggle should be against the dehumanizing nature of structural forces like white supremacy and misogyny. Turning around and saying that maybe the concept of "human" needs to be overcome, or is complicit due to historical baggage, just seems really academic. Interesting analyses will come of this but I am skeptical that they will point us toward a more progressive ontology idk. I might lack imagination, or maybe I am just not radical enough
― Treeship, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 17:59 (eight years ago) link
Like, if the point is just "we are not purely rational agents. We need to interrogate our positionality and how it informs how we think/interface with society" then i agree and am on board. But caputo seems to be saying more than that.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 18:11 (eight years ago) link
in that piece imo caputo isnt saying enough, in parts.
fwiw i think there's a longer tradition of this type of thinking, its not just starting from zero. frantz fanon & post colonial studies generally for ex
but then i find this stuff to be p convincing, to a point, if a bit deterministichttp://www.metamute.org/editorial/articles/wanderings-slave-black-life-and-social-death
they consider the slave to be in a state of 'ontological death,' actually, and posit that race is not a conflict but an antagonism; that western society is built upon the existence of a slave class
think about how insufficient ending the war on drugs would be at reversing the current paradigm ... think about michelle alexander saying the same % of ppl who were enslaved in 1860 are currently in prison or under court surveillance ... etc
― supreme problematics (D-40), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 18:24 (eight years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/Rwpe669.png
roasted
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:19 (eight years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/4sDAaJO.png
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:21 (eight years ago) link
freddie gotgored
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:21 (eight years ago) link
not a response to TNC:
Freddie @freddiedeboer May 13I think it was Mao who said "Political power grows out of the barrel of a sick burn."
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:22 (eight years ago) link
fuck!
― goole, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:23 (eight years ago) link
r they gonna fight
http://i.imgur.com/b7Euy0y.png
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:36 (eight years ago) link
freddie's twitter pic looks like he's about to cry
― Mordy, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:37 (eight years ago) link
This is a bad look for our friend freddie
― Treeship, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:38 (eight years ago) link
today is kick freddie day
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:39 (eight years ago) link
on one hand i'm sure he knew/knows the amount of blowback he's going to get from attacking tnc, esp this week of all weeks, which makes it some kind of pyrrhic opportunism - i almost respect how quickly + willingly he is to take whatever damage this crusade might do to his reputation / online persona / whatever. all publicity is good publicity. otoh what a fucking moron.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:41 (eight years ago) link
i cld possible kinda admire him for it if his whole schtick wasnt so entry level and self righteous
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:42 (eight years ago) link
no magazine covers no aspen friends just you and me mano y mano, broooooo
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:43 (eight years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJ-q7stUcAA-v7h.png
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:44 (eight years ago) link
vulnerable? what exactly r u talking abtttttttttttt
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:45 (eight years ago) link
You + me + my tenure application, hosa
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:45 (eight years ago) link
surprised Freddie didn't just call him "uppity"
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:45 (eight years ago) link
give him time
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:47 (eight years ago) link
In the old days they would've exchanged nasty articulate letters in The New York Review of Books
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:47 (eight years ago) link
srsly just caught myself fantasizing abt rubbernecking an epic online meltdown lol
more like freddie da boor
― e-bouquet (mattresslessness), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:54 (eight years ago) link
his "media criticism" reduces to fidgety anxiety about what the popular kids are doing; this li'l episode isn't much different
― goole, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:54 (eight years ago) link
otm
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:55 (eight years ago) link
lagoon r u making the popcorn or will i
― difficult-difficult lemon-difficult (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:57 (eight years ago) link
coat the world in popcorn
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 19:59 (eight years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK3ZP6frAMc
― Treeship, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:03 (eight years ago) link
goole otm
― supreme problematics (D-40), Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:07 (eight years ago) link
i just winced all the way into my chair
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:09 (eight years ago) link
nice
― lag∞n, Wednesday, 15 July 2015 20:11 (eight years ago) link