a hot dog is

ienjoyhotdogs wrote this on thread What sounds 'cutting edge' in 2015? on board I Love Music on May 27, 2015

farts

RIP

functionally a hot dog is a sandwich, but it's farther away from the platonic ideal of sandwichness than a a blt or ham and swiss on rye. it's less of a sandwich. things that are sandwiched are between, a bun is singular, the dog is within. layering is not a necessary condition, it's a connotation, a belief that things go in order, that if you notate something thusly then that's what it looks like. a hot dog with stuff just glopped on it is just fucking chaos.

"Less of a sandwich" otm. Degrees of sandwichosity rather than a polarizing yes/no. "Girls, you're BOTH pretty."

Platonic ideal of sandwich is bread, savory food, bread, arranged in a vertical vector.

Of course there are things that don't fit that that we can still call a sandwich. Open-faced sandwiches (e.g. croque m.). Ice cream sandwiches.

The orientation of the meat-slot (ahem) is salient, but it is not dispositive. I'd sooner welcome a lobster roll into the sandwich family than a hot dog. Some subs are served with the slot facing vertically, but I suspect most users turn them round for eating.

(This illustrates one flaw in the design of the hot dog bun: if you hold it upright, the most flavorful elements are farthest from your taste buds! You get a tongue-full of blandness and all the fun is pointing at the roof of your mouth.)

A hamburger is definitely a sandwich. As are all mcmuffin-style breakfast sandwiches.

Bread is pretty much essential. BreadING, as in a corn dog, does not count. Tortillas do not count, so a wrap or quesadilla is not a sandwich. Chicken, in the infamous Double-Down, is a one-off exception that has been discontinued and is unlikely to gain traction with the public again. If a calzone (or folded piece of pizza) is a sandwich, then so is a chicken pot pie, which is plainly absurd and a notion not to be entertained among the civilized.

I see hierarchies of information as situational. Seals and sea lions are different, but the distinction matters a lot more to marine biologists than to, say, third-graders. Some distinctions will only ever be interesting to highly interested persons. See also: apes and monkeys.

So if a restaurant does not specialize in sandwiches, I wouldn't fault them for including hot dogs among a general heading "sandwiches." Bread/stuff/bread, close enough.

But if you claim expertise in sandwiches, you will want your taxonomy to be more granular: hamburgers, paninis, wraps, subs, hoagies, open-faced sandwiches, hot dogs.

Nah

This song's been stuck in my head since the thread began.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHhheCf0G1I

Hodgeman had ruled. THAT IS ALL!

I agree with virtually everything Ye Mad Puffin said except the part where he says a hot dog is not a sandwich. I love the good judge Hodgman but his ruling is absurd. A sandwich is defined by something you cut in half?! What kind of prescriptive nonsense is that?!

A sandwich, to me, is something where it's put in bread to be easier to eat with your hands. The "dachshund sandwich" was a frankfurter in a bun so people could eat it at a ball game. IT WAS CALLED A SANDWICH before someone changed its name to hot dog.

I trust that ILX will not fuck this poll up when there is such a clear and correct answer.

Also I have probably earned more SBs on this thread than in the history of my ten years on ILX but idaf ahdias

well now you're just askin for it

Hot dogs were originally bunless; there is a story (possibly apocryphal) of a hot dog vendor who provided his customers with gloves to protect their hands while eating the dogs. Too many customers kept the gloves instead of giving them back; his wife suggested hey, maybe just put them in bread?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_dog#History

Tangent: I should note that I am originally from St. Louis. "Inventing the hot dog bun" is one of the things that St. Louis's cheery boosters (my mother among them) will not shut up about. St. Louis also claims to have invented the ice cream cone at, of course, the 1904 World's Fair. I say this with bounteous and tolerant love: St. Louis, the reason you will never be a major modern city is because you cannot shut up about achievements that happened in 1904.

lol

Not a sandwich. Has there ever been a time when you were at a deli ordering a sandwich and they asked "What kind of meat would you like?" and offered hot dog meat as an option?

That's a silly criterion

this thread is for serious criteria only

How is it silly? Ordering a sandwich is like every day behavior for millions of people. Delis specialize in sandwiches so I would defer to their authority over a restaurant that sells sandwiches soups salads steaks pasta all kinds of foods and thus might label a hotdog as a sandwich more out of menu space concerns.

there are all sorts of sandwiches you can't get at a tpyical deli. they only sell the "greatest hits" sandwiches. you are being very breaderonormative right now

I guess to really answer this question we would need to ask an archaeologist about how prehistoric man enjoyed his hot dogs.

place is overrun w Sandwich Justice Warriors /s

Literally "they don't sell hot dogs at the sandwich shop so it's not a sandwich" is the worst argument for anything I've ever heard.

A hot dog is a damn sandwich! Meat between bread, it's the platonic ideal of sandwich.

Would you ever say the words "Hot dog sandwich"?

Any other sandwich contains the word "sandwich". You don't eat a "Peanut Butter and Jelly", you eat a "Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich". You don't eat a "Egg Salad" you eat an "Egg Salad Sandwich".

Would you ever say the words "hamburger sandwich"?

Croque Monsieur sandwich

I have before, and I might again someday.

xps - a muffaletta is a sandwich but doesn't require the word "sandwich" to know what it is and that it's a sandwich. Ditto po-boy, hoagie, grinder, Reuben, etc

A hot dog is a sandwich.

my takeaway here is that Adam isn't very familiar with sandwiches

if anyone ever said blt sandwich i might laugh at them

BLT also. You guys are right about that.

Still I think one must differentiate between breads, a hamburger/hotdog bun is not easily replaced w your standard slice of white or wheat bread.

"I'd like a turkey club."
"You want a meat cudgel made out of pressed turkey????"
"What? No, I want a turkey club sandwich."
"Oh! You have to say 'sandwich' otherwise no one knows what you're talking about."
"Shut up, Adam."

Still I think one must differentiate between breads, a hamburger/hotdog bun is not easily replaced w your standard slice of white or wheat bread.

confirms DJP's takeaway completely

"breaderonormative" = threadwinner imo

I mean of course it is true to say a hot dog is a sandwich, obviously, obviously, it obviously is a sandwich, and of course it is more accurate to say that it is a hot dog that is how categories work

And you can cut one in half. Why is there a person who thinks that you can't cut a hot dog and why do they think that is a defining characteristic of a sandwich

Has there ever been a time when you were at a deli ordering a sandwich and they asked "What kind of meat would you like?" and offered hot dog meat as an option?

if it's a torta place, then yes.

http://www.seriouseats.com/torta.jpg

A torta is a sandwich before anyone starts

Why is there a person who thinks that you can't cut a hot dog and why do they think that is a defining characteristic of a sandwich

I think if we can answer this question, we will be capable of solving most of the social crises that currently threaten modern civilization.

Are we saying that a hot dog bun is two slices of bread? Typically it comes as one unified bun.

That is the most bonkers thing itt even beating out dog latin's assertion that filled baguettes are not sandwiches

Xp

hinged bun already a confirmed non-issue, subway calls their sandwiches sandwiches and they come on hinged buns

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/2/12/1360687508527/Benugo-Tuna-mayo-salad-008.jpg

^unified bun

^sandwich

^otm

A hot dog is a sandwich.

― rack of lamb of god (WilliamC), Monday, August 3, 2015 12:35 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i agree with all of the above logic and yet i voted "not a sandwich" because "not a sandwich" is a feeling

Like climate change denial

"Typically it comes as one unified bun." - yes, also true of many bun/sub roll/baguette-based entities (as wins correctly notes).

Sloppy Joe - on a bun, fits the basic bread/stuff/bread criterion regardless of whether the bun-hinge is complete or severed. It is a sandwich.

Lobster roll - on a bun, fits the basic bread/stuff/bread criterion regardless of whether the bun-hinge is complete or severed. It is a sandwich,

Croque monsieur (cf. all open-faced sandwich-like entities): often served on ONE piece of bread. While it is not bread/meat/bread, it is still traditionally and rightly classed as a sandwich, via a grand-pere clause.

I have no idea what a torta exactly is, but based on Jordan's photo I would eat the fuck out of one right now. That's amore.

They are dope

Yeah whatever that is it looks fucking awesome.

I voted non-sandwich despite having to acknowledge that the pro-sandwich people have logic on their side, guess it's kind of a heart/mind dichotomy.