ok so I haven't been following the BFZ stuff at all (we had a baby...)
I know they've reprinted all the fetches/shocks in some fashion, but does this mean they're all standard legal now? Because if so, that's really dumb - resulting in exactly the sort of enviroment that Moodles is describing, where everyone plays Modern Jund-type decks full of overpowered mythics.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 27 October 2015 13:23 (eight years ago) link
There are ally colored fetches and new ally colored duals that are worse than shocks but are fetch-able in standard currently, yes. Having only the ally ones leads to a weird situation where playing 4 colors is no harder than playing 3 colors so there's just a lot of 4 color midrange decks.
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 27 October 2015 13:28 (eight years ago) link
Right, the issue is the combination of fetches & battle lands makes mana bases too open-ended, plus you have all these ridiculous graveyard interactions with cards like Jace, Kolaghan's Command, Ojutai's Command, Den Protector, Deathmist Raptor, delve cards, allowing you to recur and re-use cards endlessly. It feels oppressive to me, but maybe I was just spoiled by the way things had been going over the past year.
some solid graveyard hate could possibly help the situation
― too young for seapunk (Moodles), Tuesday, 27 October 2015 14:57 (eight years ago) link
The PT was pretty silly, with deck names like Dark Jeskai and Blue Abzan. I remember reading something the developers said about how they wanted lands that would encourage two color decks. Don't know if they meant post fetches, but right now it's pretty dumb how every deck can play any card.
― Vinnie, Tuesday, 27 October 2015 15:10 (eight years ago) link
I do like BFZ limited now that I've played it a bit. There's a bit of variety of decks to make, and it feels like there's less bombs (though Rolling Thunder at uncommon increases the number). I still get confused what cards are allies and what cards have ingest though. I think they failed a bit on the theming.
― Vinnie, Tuesday, 27 October 2015 15:34 (eight years ago) link
Shadows Over Innistrad confirmed for April
― too young for seapunk (Moodles), Sunday, 1 November 2015 02:55 (eight years ago) link
i did a few bfz prerelease sealeds on mtgo when it came out even tho they are shitty value but i 4-0'd nearly all of them and had some good opens so i went into the format with like 40 packs and a bunch of tix. since then my limited rating has dropped exactly 150 points from 1856 to 1706 and the cupboard is bare. think i ought to take a break until April maybe.
― Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 4 November 2015 00:00 (eight years ago) link
None of this is surprising to me, but it's interesting to see this spelled out in such detail:http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/the-most-expensive-standard-since-caw-blade
I'm not super upset about the high prices, I've resigned myself to playing mediocre decks like R/G Landfall and Aristocrats. The frustrating thing for me is that local standard play has absolutely bottomed out in Austin, TX. During Khans block, my LGS would get between 20-30 people for FNM standard. Now, it's a struggle to get even 8 people, and this is the case across a bunch of stores. I'd be ok with my crappy decks if there was a consistent pool of players to compete with.
― too young for seapunk (Moodles), Monday, 9 November 2015 15:49 (eight years ago) link
the landfall deck is not mediocre, the become immense / temur battle rage combo is really brutal for standard. also the ramp decks are putting up results on MTGO now which is opening up the format a lot since there's now a predator for the midrange decks
the current high prices are mostly a product of the fetchlands which are going away in the next rotation. without them jace is a lot less powerful and manabases move back towards 2 colors as a default instead of 3-4.
― ciderpress, Monday, 9 November 2015 16:09 (eight years ago) link
I guess what I'd say is that landfall is the best deck I have access to, but it still feels a bit underpowered. It manages to get by in part because many decks (except Jeskai black) don't pack enough removal to disrupt it. This could easily change if the deck gains at all.
I agree that this state of affairs will probably change at next rotation assuming we don't see enemy fetches come back or something crazy like that. It would also be helped if Oath contained a reasonable amount of premium removal and graveyard hate.
― too young for seapunk (Moodles), Monday, 9 November 2015 16:15 (eight years ago) link
this is the first standard in 3 years that I have had any interest in, cause jeskai black seems like the first cool modern-style tempo deck in years
not gonna actually build it though
― iatee, Monday, 9 November 2015 16:39 (eight years ago) link
this deck isn't nearly at the same power level, but it allows you to play a modern-style tempo game and is a more affordable option.
― too young for seapunk (Moodles), Monday, 9 November 2015 16:50 (eight years ago) link
jeskai black is more of a clunky midrange deck to me
after playing delver in standard, pretty much all new standard 'tempo' decks feel like crap in comparison. i've been ruined
― ciderpress, Monday, 9 November 2015 17:25 (eight years ago) link
yeah I don't think they ever want a delver equivalent or strong cheap countermagic in standard, which means that a true tempo deck is only gonna be happen again if they screw something up
― iatee, Tuesday, 10 November 2015 04:44 (eight years ago) link
considering all the incredibly shitty changes to mtgo since i started playing it in 2012 im not sure why but the change to mocs is the one that bothers me the most.
― LEGIT (Lamp), Friday, 13 November 2015 19:53 (eight years ago) link
what elements in particular? i like that it is easier to get into a mocs event now but all the events being standard and modern is lame imo.
― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 13 November 2015 20:16 (eight years ago) link
anyone play the legendary cube yet? I played one last night and found it pretty fun. idk if it will be too hard to solve though. it's sooo slow, peoples' curves start at 4 and it mostly seems to be about choice removal vs choice bombs.
― iatee, Friday, 20 November 2015 00:20 (eight years ago) link
on of my budz says he's still gonna be picking signets over everything as if this were a normal cube, but idk if that's actually even right because the format is slow enough that you can't really do anything broken within the first few turns anyway. the big mana rocks seem really strong though.
― iatee, Friday, 20 November 2015 00:24 (eight years ago) link
ive watched some streams but it seems like the exact kind of magic that i find unfun so ill probably skip it
apparently gp pittsburg hit their cap earlier today which is interesting to me. validates my decision not to make the drive down i think
― LEGIT (Lamp), Friday, 20 November 2015 00:43 (eight years ago) link
yeah people really like modern. I have kinda burnt out on it but maybe I should just start playing a deck that doesn't always lose to burn and tron. I kinda think burn is probably just the best deck in modern. they really need to stop printing new burn cards.
― iatee, Friday, 20 November 2015 00:48 (eight years ago) link
'burnt out on it'
― iatee, Friday, 20 November 2015 00:50 (eight years ago) link
legendary cube doesn't seem like my thing if it's basically the cube parallel to EDH, which is what it looks like.
i think my mtgo burnout period is about over at this point, now i'm just waiting for a new limited/standard format i like before i dive back in. BFZ is ok but way too loud about its intentions strategy-wise, there's not really any discovery process, the decks are all just there in your face from the start. i never feel compelled to draft a ton in formats where that's the case
― ciderpress, Friday, 20 November 2015 15:43 (eight years ago) link
I think the edhness is overstated a little bit probably, but I have been drafting control decks w/ like 5 creatures
― iatee, Friday, 20 November 2015 15:46 (eight years ago) link
guy from my local store top 8ed the GP with commune with lava scapeshift, i've spent the last year or 2 throwing unusual cards in that deck but i feel like i've been outdone here
― ciderpress, Monday, 23 November 2015 17:54 (eight years ago) link
commune with lolva
cider did you play the gp?
― LEGIT (Lamp), Monday, 23 November 2015 17:59 (eight years ago) link
no i didn't make it
would have played scapeshift or infect, that's all i've got atm
― ciderpress, Monday, 23 November 2015 18:13 (eight years ago) link
anyone got some draft advice for BFZ? played a monogreen deck with lots of Eldrazi and got crushed - didn't get a whole lot of accel and my big dudes kept getting bounced. hadn't seen a single card from the set before the draft which means I was probably hopeless going in, now I know a little more but still have no clue what's good/not
― frogbs, Monday, 23 November 2015 19:47 (eight years ago) link
A lot of pros seem to think you should stay away from green altogether
― too young for seapunk (Moodles), Monday, 23 November 2015 19:52 (eight years ago) link
ppl avoiding green is at en extreme right now but even so you have to have a really good reason to be there. for any green deck (landfall, ramp, converge/allies, bg sac) you have to have a strong start with the other half of the deck before it is worth looking at most green cards, in particular the weak commons. e.g. you can pick up a bunch of good aggressive red cards early pack 1 that could be the start of a few different decks but you want to be getting something rare or uncommon like grove rumblers tabling before you go green.
ramp really has to be land ramp to work, with the scions being 1/1s they are often too valuable to sac and risk getting your fatty bounced or killed. e.g. the 2/3 plus scion 4 drop is a decent card especially for the modal value of the 1/1 but if you lose that for nothing the 4 drop 2/3 is a bit gross.
the allies deck can be v strong but it only fires if you have a bunch of the strong uncommons, especially the rw double strike dude, the menace guy and the tapper. i would take one of those speculatively early and see if a few arrive in a row before being happy about going that direction.
but unless you get a good steer early in another direction, some combo of the grixis devoid colours is the safest route to a decent deck.
― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 23 November 2015 20:02 (eight years ago) link
uw fliers is solid, just be careful of overextending on awaken and getting short on mana. it is a mana intensive format for sure.
― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 23 November 2015 20:04 (eight years ago) link
is this like Black in Avacyn Restored, or even worse? hard to believe R&D would nerf a color so hard in this modern era
both decks I lost to were 3-color - is this strange or are 3 color decks common? also is it proper to play 18 land here?
― frogbs, Monday, 23 November 2015 20:44 (eight years ago) link
yes 18, i might've played 19 as often as 17. 3+ colours is fine but the fixing is scarce so you have to have a good reason and then prioritize evolving wilds etc. i think part of the reason green is so poor is that they have kind of sacrificed it as the foundation of multicoloured decks instead of adding more broad fixing. the 3 drop guy who taps for any colour might be the nest green common, and this set's variation of the common land grab spell is very playable.
― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 23 November 2015 20:56 (eight years ago) link
evolving wilds is almost first pickable, I have def 2nd picked it a few times now.
19 is def okay if you are using one or two utility lands too.
awaken cards are all better than they seem. just pretend that they're creatures. roil spout is better than most rares.
― iatee, Monday, 23 November 2015 20:58 (eight years ago) link
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 02:57 (eight years ago) link
If green is open there's a good chance of getting lots of so-so green cards and no payoff cards
― too young for seapunk (Moodles), Tuesday, 24 November 2015 03:03 (eight years ago) link
that said, some of the green archetypes are solid - RG landfall and the '5-color' green deck (usually GWU) come to mind - but the green cards for those decks are generally available mid-late, you're early picking the red burn spells or the UW awaken spells, and those cards let you get into other powerful decks in the event that green isn't wide open to support them
i think the only non-rare green card i've pack 1 pick 1'd in this format is Brood Monitor
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 03:25 (eight years ago) link
i 'like' u/g a fair bit in this format at least rn in mtgo 8-4s. this is the fourth pick greenwarden of murasa meta admittedly. you also often end up splashing either white or black in these decks for rares.
― LEGIT (Lamp), Tuesday, 24 November 2015 06:45 (eight years ago) link
my big problem was getting Conduit of Ruin out and having it killed right away. those Awaken/bounce spells are nasty. I knew this card was a trap!!
― frogbs, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 14:02 (eight years ago) link
haha that is a sad sequence for sure. conduit still a v good card despite the risk
― Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 14:30 (eight years ago) link
I've had some success with UG midrange decks, but I think it speaks more to the power of blue than green. The Converge deck is just about the only strong green deck that I've seen, because you can actually make use of Lifespring Druid and Tajuru Stalwart, which are only powerful in the right deck. Basically this:
its more that green is like 100% roleplayer cards
― Vinnie, Thursday, 26 November 2015 03:45 (eight years ago) link
Not a fan of RG landfall though, I've never seen it work well on my side or my opponent's side.
― Vinnie, Thursday, 26 November 2015 03:46 (eight years ago) link
is that commune with lava scapeshift deck the real deal? it is one of very few modern decks that I could feasibly play, but it's hard to tell if it is actually competitive or if dude just had a really good/lucky run
― too young for seapunk (Moodles), Wednesday, 2 December 2015 19:44 (eight years ago) link
the deck is fine, it loses pretty bad to faster combo decks e.g. infect or storm but crushes the midrange decks and anything else that can't lock the game up in 4 turns
it's also a very easy deck to pilot relative to the rest of the format which is more relevant than people think in long tournaments like GPs imo
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 2 December 2015 20:12 (eight years ago) link
so, apparently this is real
http://mythicspoiler.com/ogw/cards/wastes.jpg
― frogbs, Friday, 11 December 2015 15:33 (eight years ago) link
Definitely real along with several other related cards including new kozilek
― Check Yr Scrobbles (Moodles), Friday, 11 December 2015 15:40 (eight years ago) link
first thought, does this make Domain/Sunburst go to 6?
― frogbs, Friday, 11 December 2015 15:43 (eight years ago) link
no
― ciderpress, Friday, 11 December 2015 16:20 (eight years ago) link
it doesn't have a basic land type, is why
― ciderpress, Friday, 11 December 2015 16:21 (eight years ago) link
-it's a basic land, so Evolving Wilds and Rampant Growth can find it, and you can play more than 4 copies in a constructed deck. -it doesn't have a type, so it doesn't count towards mechanics that count basic land types-it produces colorless mana, so it doesn't count towards mechanics that count colors of mana
― ciderpress, Friday, 11 December 2015 16:24 (eight years ago) link
why they chose to add a colorless mana symbol midway through the block is pretty perplexing though, now all the spawn token making cards in the first set essentially have to get errataed since they should say 'add (C)' rather than 'add (1)'
― ciderpress, Friday, 11 December 2015 16:28 (eight years ago) link