HRC is clearly not a great politician (or doesn't have amazing campaigning instincts more precisely) but you can't deny that she has a tremendous wealth of experience. Whether that translates to things like good, effective policy is a good/different question.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 19:53 (eight years ago) link
pretty evident that it does not. She seems to be frozen in 1995.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 19:54 (eight years ago) link
she has experience selling weapons to the middle east, so there's that
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:03 (eight years ago) link
it's undeniable that HRC has experience, but her lack of notable accomplishments as senator or secretary of state is equally hard to deny
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:03 (eight years ago) link
She's manifestly a terrible politician.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:04 (eight years ago) link
as long as we're talking big picture, i find myself being almost totally unexcited by this race. the GOP clown car berlusconi-style bigot parade is compelling stuff but i have close to zero strong opinion on the dem side.
i don't have any real faith in or respect for hillary. her record as flotus, senator and secstate are all pretty bad imo, either good ideas bungled or bad ideas pursued expediently or crises left to fester because of paranoia (not an uncommon political problem, granted). i didn't want a trip thru the gutter of 90s politics in 08 and i still don't. i don't have any trust that she'll surround herself with competent people.
all that said, i just don't buy bernie's pitch. his core idea is that an activated, energized dem+independent base -- a mass popular movement -- will break the gridlock and allow his ambitious legislative plan to work. i think he's wrong! just flat wrong. i have doubts the party or the country will go for an old jewish socialist, but i guess we'll see.
― goole, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:05 (eight years ago) link
i agree that sanders' plan for political change is naive, and i think he's channeling a lot of anger + frustration on the left but a lot of the finer details of the policy stuff (in financial reform, healthcare, gun control, etc) seem more superficial than hillary's stated policies.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:07 (eight years ago) link
why is palin back now
because... she's not dead?
it's just funny to be in a situation where you want traffic on your website but you don't really want people to put too much stock in what you're saying yet
doesn't matter in 538's case. liberals and 'centrist' Dems in particular absolutely cannot get enough of meaningless morsels about The Prez Auction from midterms on.
see you in April! or not.
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:08 (eight years ago) link
xpost To that extent, Sanders is kinda the Trump of the left. Don't just tell us what we want to hear, give us some idea of how you hope to actually achieve these things.
― Meat Sheet (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:10 (eight years ago) link
has anyone asked hillary about reparations
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:13 (eight years ago) link
iirc she gets a pass because she's 'not a radical' or something
― rap is dad (it's a boy!), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:17 (eight years ago) link
― goole, Wednesday, January 20, 2016 3:05 PM (8 minutes ago)
i'd honestly be surprised if either bernie or his closest advisors actually believed this -- it's just so obviously impossible. (if by some miracle he were elected, i don't doubt that he'd realize his more ambitious goals are pretty impossible to achieve and he'd probably settle into just being a relatively liberal president. which is probably all we can hope for.) but, as you (and mordy) allude to, it's an important selling point for prying votes from hilary.
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:18 (eight years ago) link
i can't wait to see the programs Pragmatic Hillary gets through a Congress that loves her so much
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:19 (eight years ago) link
i'm really surprised that none of the democratic candidates are running on the We'll do the best we can but republican gridlock will make substantial progress pretty much impossible Platform, that seems like a real motivator
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:19 (eight years ago) link
i know right
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:20 (eight years ago) link
haha, i totally forgot that this happened:
http://www.jebbush.com
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:21 (eight years ago) link
lol
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:21 (eight years ago) link
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, January 20, 2016 2:19 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i take your point. in a way, bernie's plan of mass engagement is closer to a real solution -- electing as many marginal-district dems to congress as possible.
but we saw how that worked before! we already know the limit. we're all old enough to remember 08 and 09... and 10
― goole, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:23 (eight years ago) link
yeah, but that's the naivete of his supporters, not sanders, right?
i can see criticism of sanders' supporters for naively buying into the probably impossible ideas, but not criticism of sanders for running on that platform. like it or not, politicians try to motivate people to vote for them by laying out their vision of what they would ideally achieve, not what they are most likely to achieve. if sanders' strategy was to talk about what can realistically be accomplished with a GOP-dominated house, he'd be at like 1.0234% in the polls right now. and he may not end up winning, but at least he's pulling clinton to the left.
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:27 (eight years ago) link
so it may be annoying to see a bunch of college kids fooled into thinking that if only sanders were president everything would be fixed, but shit, those kids might be trump supporters if they grew up in different circumstances.
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:28 (eight years ago) link
and with possibly my first ever disparaging of "the kids", i hereby announce my intention to retire and move into the woods
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:29 (eight years ago) link
I was one of those college kids when Obama ran
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:30 (eight years ago) link
has anyone asked hillary about reparations --mookieproof
Yes at the same time and she dodged it basically.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:30 (eight years ago) link
and he may not end up winning, but at least he's pulling clinton to the left. --Karl Malone
Debatable at this point.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:31 (eight years ago) link
my feeling is that any democratic president is going to surround him/herself with capable people to run the various parts of the executive branch, but that sanders would be better by some degree when it came to actual decision-making― k3vin k., Wednesday, January 20, 2016 7:42 PM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― k3vin k., Wednesday, January 20, 2016 7:42 PM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
sadly recent experience with the obama administration shows any new dem president will staff themselves with establishment retreads and the status quo wont budge.
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:31 (eight years ago) link
dunno, i think we're just getting started, it's january 20
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:33 (eight years ago) link
A couple things:
It seems like Sanders would help on GOTV efforts on the dem side, which might help swing congress back toward dem. Even more importantly, he's not going to motivate GOP voters to come out to vote against him like Hilary will.
Sanders is the ONLY candidate with a net positive favorability rating.
― schwantz, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:34 (eight years ago) link
so wait, you're saying that avowed centrist Barack Obama ran a centrist campaign and then staffed his administration with centrist thinkers? HOW SHOCKING, WHO COULD HAVE POSSIBLY PREDICTED THIS
― its subtle brume (DJP), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:35 (eight years ago) link
Im pretty sure candidate obama ran against the imperial bush presidency and pretty much embraced it wholeheartedly once in office.
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:37 (eight years ago) link
to the right of W on surveillance, whistleblowers and global AIDS funding
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:41 (eight years ago) link
yes, obama will go down in history as the hitler of aids
― iatee, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:42 (eight years ago) link
far to the right of W on establishing enormous marine reserves
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:43 (eight years ago) link
I wonder what the 'welcome to the presidency' boot camp is like where the CIA and NSA, et al lifers scare the fucking shit out of whoever wins and they explain all the horrible things they do to keep the status quo
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:48 (eight years ago) link
Bill Hicks (stand-up comedian, died in the 90s) had a bit about how they take newly elected presidents into a dark room and show them the Kennedy assassination, filmed from an angle nobody's ever seen before, and just ask, "Any questions?"
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 21:07 (eight years ago) link
my only hesitation with bernie as president is that he'd be so utterly ineffection due to republican stalemates nothing would ever happen, he'd lose relection or not run due to age, and then a republican will come in and blow the world up in 2020.
― akm, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 21:19 (eight years ago) link
that's true of anybody though. the only reason obama could pass ACA is because the world was shook by the financial crisis.
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 21:21 (eight years ago) link
bernie prob won't get much of anything through congress, but i don't think HRC with all her "experience" will do any better. any dem who ends up being president will prob look more like obama's last couple years than his first couple years -- executive orders and good speeches.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 21:30 (eight years ago) link
I'm at the same place goole is, it sounds like
(many xposts)
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 21:35 (eight years ago) link
Jeb Lund:
Blaming Track Palin’s problems on Obama’s policy is just trading in the old Stabbed In The Back myth, repurposed from Weimar Germany by way of Vietnam, to synonymize an antipathy for the policy and strategy for which troops died with an antipathy for the troops themselves. (Let’s also not forget that neglecting the VA has been a bipartisan sin.) And whatever insufficiency of warmongering Obama has manifested over the years has never been paired with anything short of voluble, frequent praise for service members.Even if Palin’s assertions were true, that’s a weird way for PTSD to manifest, so furious at a policy that it leads someone to lash out in the home as opposed to expressing anything at the source of the anger. Is it related to all troop withdrawals and just to Obama? What about other policy makers? And why didn’t this come up earlier? Was Track Palin drunk and shirtless at the Palin’s 2014 pier-six brawl because of Obama too?
Even if Palin’s assertions were true, that’s a weird way for PTSD to manifest, so furious at a policy that it leads someone to lash out in the home as opposed to expressing anything at the source of the anger. Is it related to all troop withdrawals and just to Obama? What about other policy makers? And why didn’t this come up earlier? Was Track Palin drunk and shirtless at the Palin’s 2014 pier-six brawl because of Obama too?
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/jan/20/presidential-election-2016-campaign-coverage-trump-palin-live#block-569ff592e4b0e5eaffebb920
― Professor Goodfeels (kingfish), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 21:48 (eight years ago) link
i just realized that whoever gives alan grayson the best chance of winning rubio's florida senate seat will get my vote
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 21:50 (eight years ago) link
this is because 27% of the electorate has never heard of him
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 21:55 (eight years ago) link
right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'right wingin' bitter clingin' PROUD clingin'
― Amira, Queen of Creativity (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 21:58 (eight years ago) link
easy talkin border blockin
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 22:01 (eight years ago) link
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/20/opinions/ta-nehisi-coates-attack-on-bernie-sanders-mcwhorter/index.html
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 22:16 (eight years ago) link
I'm Ric Flair! The Stylin', profilin', limousine riding, jet flying, kiss-stealing, wheelin' n' dealin' son of a gun!
― Professor Goodfeels (kingfish), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 22:17 (eight years ago) link
that ciara remix vine of palin is impressive
― from the perspective of a gay man, i will post them now (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 22:20 (eight years ago) link
"any dem who ends up being president will prob look more like obama's last couple years than his first couple years -- executive orders and good speeches."
given that even the pretense of u.s. bipartisan governance has been dead since at least 2010, yeah, probably.
― diana krallice (rushomancy), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 22:26 (eight years ago) link
fuck bipartisan governance, just give the majority of a chamber the ability to pass legislation - there are TWO whole other branches of government to rein it in! for fuck's sake it's all so broke
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 20 January 2016 22:29 (eight years ago) link
did y'all see the iggy azalea vine
― goole, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 22:36 (eight years ago) link
having either a socialist or a [whatever trump is] president might cause some really weird/ugly 'bipartisan' stuff to happen in congress
― goole, Wednesday, 20 January 2016 22:38 (eight years ago) link