Yeah it doesn't seem inherently bad. Maybe annoying but not bad. The "guru" thing is funny, he's a pretty soft spoken guy in my experience.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 24 February 2016 00:40 (eight years ago) link
Had no idea he had "followers" of any kind, just thought he had a successful blog.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 24 February 2016 00:41 (eight years ago) link
What do people make of the post-SFJ pop critics? I struggle with the same things I always did: a certain stiffness and need to overexplain every reference. They're all writing in roughly the same voice. I don't know why because Emily Nussbaum's TV criticism is vibrant and characterful, dropping in all kinds of jokes and allusions without feeling compelled to hold the reader's hand. They're all clearly good writers - this isn't a knock on the individuals - but I'd love to see a bit more swagger in that slot.
― impossible raver (Re-Make/Re-Model), Friday, February 12, 2016 10:21 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
You're not alone. Because I can't recall NYer pop critics pre-SFJ, everyone post SFJ sounds like SFJ. Sometimes I just pretend SFJ is ghostwriting for them.
― Crazy Eddie & Jesus the Kid (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 24 February 2016 03:09 (eight years ago) link
I've thought Amanda Petrusich's stuff has been pretty great -- not sure if she's their "pop music" person though?
― tylerw, Wednesday, 24 February 2016 04:33 (eight years ago) link
Sometimes I feel like the magazine really stretches to make A long form piece out of what doesn't really justify it. Reading the piece about the carries interest loophole and it's sort of interesting but it mostly just seems to be saying "carried interest loophole is bad. These guys are so rich. Carried interest loophole bad. "
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Saturday, 12 March 2016 00:10 (eight years ago) link
I'm struggling to get into Jane Mayer's "Dark Money." I respect her work a lot, but I'm a quarter of the way in, maybe, and it's been less than illuminating, or at least relentlessly exactly what I expected. "You know this shadowy cabal of loosely associated assholes who came from money and have been using their wealth to undermine liberal causes and democracy in general? Well, um, yeah, that's what they've been doing." Should I keep going? I hate giving up on books, but it feels a little like, well, the aforementioned long piece that just goes on too long. Only, because it's a book, even longer.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 16:16 (eight years ago) link
there's admittedly not a whole lot of "story" to it, but subsequent chapters do at least focus on specific ideological battles and key turning points that give the narrative a little more steam, like ACA and climate change and the takeover of state legislatures.
― evol j, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 16:27 (eight years ago) link
I wish it was just a New Yorker article about one of those subjects. Maybe it was!
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 22 March 2016 16:36 (eight years ago) link
the gay talese motel owner/voyeur article is p interesting
― johnny crunch, Monday, 4 April 2016 18:27 (eight years ago) link
"interesting", definitely.
but imo mainly o_O
― trickle-down ergonomics (jim in glasgow), Monday, 4 April 2016 19:29 (eight years ago) link
it's fucking insane
― J0rdan S., Monday, 4 April 2016 20:09 (eight years ago) link
and not in a good way, i would say
and there's a book about forthcoming !
― trickle-down ergonomics (jim in glasgow), Monday, 4 April 2016 20:51 (eight years ago) link
and there's a book about Foos forthcoming !
i suspect (hope) the murder in the motel was an invention. seems like a story that could express his need for power in a way that's dramatic and not totally pathetic.
― sciatica, Tuesday, 5 April 2016 01:47 (eight years ago) link
lol i stumbled upon his card collection hes trying to sell --http://www.historicsportscollection.net/the-collection.html
1,000,000 plus common cards, alphabetically listed in binders (all sports)
― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 5 April 2016 02:06 (eight years ago) link
Just finished the Foos story, incredible stuff. I also came away thinking the murder was a figment of his imagination, although I suspect that, over the years, he's lost track of whether it really happened or not. This part was particularly interesting and even kind of beautiful: "I've pondered on occasion that perhaps I don't exist, only represent a product of the subjects' dreams. No one would believe my accomplishments as a voyeur anyway, therefore, the dreamlike manifestation would explain my reality."
Whole thing has a movie-like quality to it, I wouldn't be surprised if Hollywood is swarming over it right now.
― Position Position, Tuesday, 5 April 2016 23:42 (eight years ago) link
i don't know what i think about it but i'm glad i read it.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 6 April 2016 03:32 (eight years ago) link
i thought the guy was not interesting at all. the story itself -- man buys motel for the purpose of setting up decades long elaborate peeping tom operation -- is certainly unique but it needed to be explored from angles beyond just foos. the sum result of his peeping is that he notices men pee in the sink and are bad at fucking. okay?????? this is noteworthy because? otherwise he's just a dime a dozen paranoid weird old dude zzzz
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 6 April 2016 05:45 (eight years ago) link
handwaving the murder part by going "oh well he probably just invented it" is a pretty huge cop out imo
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 6 April 2016 05:46 (eight years ago) link
m struggling to get into Jane Mayer's "Dark Money." I respect her work a lot, but I'm a quarter of the way in, maybe, and it's been less than illuminating, or at least relentlessly exactly what I expected. "You know this shadowy cabal of loosely associated assholes who came from money and have been using their wealth to undermine liberal causes and democracy in general? Well, um, yeah, that's what they've been doing." Should I keep going? I hate giving up on books, but it feels a little like, well, the aforementioned long piece that just goes on too long. Only, because it's a book, even longer.
I loved it and had trouble putting it down tbh. I had no idea the Kochs' dad was a fucking psycho.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 April 2016 10:40 (eight years ago) link
xxp i think the more provocative element for me was that it tapped into what i think is a pretty universal feeling (of you know "am i normal," "what are other people like in private,") but then projected through this horrific transgressive context which practically scans like a horror movie. like i couldn't help but empathize on some level w. this desire to know but then absolutely repulsed by the ways that he went about satiating it. the writer in some ways an even creepier individual on how he has allowed himself to be complicit in these crimes as their stenography (and then even participate in them himself!) bc of this sense of like journalistic adventurism. tbh jordan i'm surprised you didn't like it, or maybe that is why you didn't like it.
― Mordy, Thursday, 7 April 2016 02:51 (eight years ago) link
stenographer* -- and apparently there's a book coming out too? i don't know which of the two are sicker - the guy crazy motel owner who has convinced himself he has done nothing wrong or the journalist who knows it's wrong but participates anyway for the story.
― Mordy, Thursday, 7 April 2016 02:53 (eight years ago) link
I think the voyeur guy is definitely grosser than 36-years-ago Gay Talese.
― eyecrud (silby), Thursday, 7 April 2016 02:57 (eight years ago) link
definitely creepier but they both seem v unpleasant
― Mordy, Thursday, 7 April 2016 02:59 (eight years ago) link
It's the kind of article I could imagine David Cronenberg reading back in the 70s/80s and immediately wanting to make a movie around.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Thursday, 7 April 2016 03:08 (eight years ago) link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/04/07/calvin-trillin-and-the-new-yorker-slammed-for-poem-about-chinese-food/ satirizing foodies, or a vaguely racist white guy...
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 7 April 2016 14:16 (eight years ago) link
lol that poem is lame but it's pretty obviously a satire on hipsters chasing "exotic" cuisine. The rage by the usual poet-scolds on my FB feed is even lamer.
― Blowout Coombes (President Keyes), Friday, 8 April 2016 00:48 (eight years ago) link
Yeah, I wish Trillin wouldn't write these stupid poems (though if I could get an quick check for writing some lame rhymes at age 80 I'd take it), but the vast majority of what he's written in the past 50 years has shown him to be a thoughtful, culturally aware, self-deprecating writer. Bums me out to see people taking the poem literally and assuming he's a sheltered know-nothing (and given that every cultural figure I like is dying this year I'd hate for him to be remembered for this). Not that the poem deserved to be published in the New Yorker but couldn't people focus their outrage on Borowitz?
― JoeStork, Friday, 8 April 2016 03:08 (eight years ago) link
i would be up for the job but it would require not ignoring borowitz
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, 8 April 2016 17:56 (eight years ago) link
voyeur story was craaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy
― marcos, Friday, 8 April 2016 18:00 (eight years ago) link
yah it's crazy.
spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't read it:
talese not snitching on the voyeur despite the fact that he didn't even have any intention of using him in story, and the fact that he was continually committing a fairly serious crime in a manner that had almost chance of being detected; the fact that the voyeur has "come out", and has received money for his story; and maybe caused/witnessed a murder and did nothing to help the victim; and it's going to be a book; and the book will print entries from his log of voyeurism. imagine being a person who had sex in that motel and finding that it's detailed in a book.
― trickle-down ergonomics (jim in glasgow), Friday, 8 April 2016 18:07 (eight years ago) link
i thought about that and i'd be grossed out to realize i had been spied upon while staying there but i assume that the log excerpts will remove any strongly identifying information?
― Mordy, Friday, 8 April 2016 18:09 (eight years ago) link
yeah there's not going to really be an exposure problem but like, you would know it was you if you read the description :\
― trickle-down ergonomics (jim in glasgow), Friday, 8 April 2016 18:14 (eight years ago) link
i love reading naughty journalism. the hairs on the back of my neck stood up as i was reading voyeur's hotel, like dude writing this is probably a breach of ethics aaaaahh. when talese's tie slipped through the vent--FFUUUCK!!
it's funny that gay talese 'went through the twitter wringer' at the exact same time this piece came out but for a completely different reason (saying there were no female gonzo journalists in the 60s at a conference)
― de l'asshole (flopson), Friday, 8 April 2016 18:21 (eight years ago) link
ultimately (after the thrills wore off) i agree with j0rdan though, there wasn't much 'of interest' to the story. but i enjoyed the hell out of reading it
― de l'asshole (flopson), Friday, 8 April 2016 18:22 (eight years ago) link
I imagine some Colorado lawyer is trying to line up aggrieved parties for a class-action suit. "If you stayed in this hotel between 1969 and 1995, you may be eligible for damages!"
― A nationally known air show announcer/personality (tipsy mothra), Friday, 8 April 2016 19:24 (eight years ago) link
talese just kind of saying, oh his wives were cool with it nbd, makes me think of nan talese & the fallout over thy neighbor's wife. like there's probably a lot more to that side of the story that this particular writer is not inclined to see.
i imagine if you're gay talese you prob have random sleaze balls like this contacting you all the time. what a life.
― sciatica, Friday, 8 April 2016 20:42 (eight years ago) link
both wives being cool with it was momentarily shocking but so many weird things happen within the privacy of relationships + families behind closed doors and ppl indulge + enable each other's sick behavior all the time (or get drawn into the fantasy/altered reality of /us/ that makes these things ok) and that resonates w/ the rest of the piece i think. feel like a lot of terrible behavior has been justified by ppl in the context of /our family/ and /our way of life/ in its private insularity vs. /the world/
― Mordy, Friday, 8 April 2016 22:15 (eight years ago) link
imagine what it was like when he told them
― de l'asshole (flopson), Saturday, 9 April 2016 00:04 (eight years ago) link
candles...teddy pendergrass playing in the background...an assortment of binoculars...a chocolate fountain
― balls, Saturday, 9 April 2016 00:17 (eight years ago) link
i imagine it being much more serious + intense. wish i had a vent to look in and see for myself..
― Mordy, Saturday, 9 April 2016 00:19 (eight years ago) link
Was hoping Talese would confront Foos about the inconsistencies of the dates in the journal. Like how could the original journal entries be dated three years too early? And then Talese alludes to other inconsistencies but doesn't describe them.
― Josefa, Saturday, 9 April 2016 00:33 (eight years ago) link
mordy idk about you, but when i got candles and teddy things get plenty serious and intense
― balls, Saturday, 9 April 2016 00:38 (eight years ago) link
xp i think it's not surprising that a sick dude has maybe a weak grasp on reality but he did show talese the vents so at least some of it is true
― Mordy, Saturday, 9 April 2016 00:52 (eight years ago) link
For sure, I was just wondering at what point creativity may have taken over
― Josefa, Saturday, 9 April 2016 00:56 (eight years ago) link
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2016/04/gay_talese_s_unethical_new_yorker_article_on_gerald_foos.html
― Mordy, Saturday, 9 April 2016 22:21 (eight years ago) link
My gut feeling is that Foos's "journal" is largely a fabrication
― Josefa, Sunday, 10 April 2016 05:04 (eight years ago) link
idk how i feel about Nussbaum winning a pulitzer... don't hate her writing, but it's basically bloggy listicles dressed up as new yorker criticism? like why would you win a pulitzer prize for that
― de l'asshole (flopson), Monday, 18 April 2016 20:18 (eight years ago) link
cuz she works for the new yorker
― J0rdan S., Monday, 18 April 2016 20:23 (eight years ago) link