Il Douché and His Discontents: The 2016 Primary Voting Thread, Part 4

Did you know that until his retirement in December after a contract dispute, Minnesota Vikings mascot Ragnar was the only "human" (that is, non caricature or animal) mascot in all four major professional American sports?

it is discriminatory against hellenic people that 'spartans' and 'trojans' and the like are only 'good enough' for the collegiate ranks

Trump is bad enough but getting lectured by Frederick is an worse

― robbie ca$hflo (upper mississippi sh@kedown), 8. marts 2016 14:56 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Spoken like a true white liberal.

no MSM agenda here, just pure paranoia, right?

http://fair.org/home/washington-post-ran-16-negative-stories-on-bernie-sanders-in-16-hours/

Frederik B reaching new levels of crazy in the night I see.

Trump is bad enough but getting lectured by Frederick is an worse

― robbie ca$hflo (upper mississippi sh@kedown), 8. marts 2016 14:56 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Spoken like a true white liberal.

― Frederik B, Tuesday, March 8, 2016 8:02 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

here's the thing about you, is you are like Trump because ultimately you don't give a shit about any of us, about our country or about any of this, you talk about a coalition of minorities and single women, then when they post on this thread you talk right past them to make your next grandiose point about american democracy -- which you've never been a part of and which you have no stake in. you treat peope on here with condescension, you know all this shit you read in books and online but when shit goes down here, you'll be happily smug in your little fucking danish hobbit hole drinking mead and listening to spotify....i might bust on morbz for his stridency but i know goddamn well what he must have dealt with in terms of oppression for year and that he's had cancer and is the belly of the fuckin beast that is the american health care system.

i bet you like this a lot more than talking about the racism, anti-immigrant policies going on in your own country because that would involve you actually getting involved, having some fucking skin in the game.

your political ideals are one: hearing your own damn self talk. just like trump.

As Bernie has shown, any new new deal that isn't specifically anti-racist and anti white-supremacy in design has no hope of making it,

Bernie is anti-racist and anti-white supremacy. He's said, many times, that the danger of Trump is xenophobia, and the only way to counter right wing populism is with a robust left wing populism that emphasizes the common interests of the working class regardless of race. I think that's a good point. It doesn't address every minority concern, and he can do more, but these lacunae don't make his movement somehow racist. Bill Clinton's anti-crime, welfare busting program of the 90s was explicitly racist. It literally was designed to appeal to those white voters that didn't want black people to access the safety net. Hillary Clinton campaigned with her husband and was involved in his presidency, she never spoke out against any of this.

Black voters are sending a strong message that they prefer Hillary and there are a million reasons for that. Respecting their decision doesn't mean admitting that Bernie's campaign is somehow tinged with racism, or that minorities somehow wouldn't benefit from his plans like free public college and single payer healthcare.

*last words of first para should have been "at the time"

Also ums otm. As much as I think it's cool to get outside perspectives, it's weird to be lectured by a Scandinavian about how the only national campaign that has seriously gone after poverty in my lifetime is somehow problematic due to its supporters' white privilege. (And not just that, but that it's "doomed" by this, and we deserve it.) There's truth to this narrative -- it's not the whole truth as I explained -- but still, fuck you.

Frederik, I'm curious why you're so interested in US politics? Have you lived there, or studied there, or do you have some other personal connection to it? It makes sense that Europeans like us should have some interest in the results of US elections, because American economic and foreign policies obviously affect us too, but your level of interest seems to go way beyond of what your average politically informed EU citizen knows/cares about the subject. I don't want to judge you or anything, I'm just genuinely curious why you're fascinated by all the details of another country's elections?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/an-awkward-reality-for-bernie-sanders-a-strategy-focused-on-whiter-states/2016/03/07/311ad3e4-e412-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html?tid=sm_tw

Yeah, I've lived and studied there.

Frederik did you see this link that Morbs posted

http://fair.org/home/washington-post-ran-16-negative-stories-on-bernie-sanders-in-16-hours

that fucking great, but when I've got a stepdad dying of pancreatic cancer, the Republicans talk of privatizing my mom's remain social security scare the fuck out of me - how will she live?

when i have a daughter in an urban public school yeah i stay up nights worrying about what education "reform" under a so-call sane republican like Kaisch would look like, what will this country look like when she grows up?

so when you say "spoken like a white liberal" you can go fuck yourself pal, go. fuck. yourself.

also i'm a hillary voter dipshit you don't know shit about me. why don't you look around yourself and see what you can do to affect he people that are experiencing racism and suffering around you and fuck off.

As Treeship says I live in a country that won the fight for a welfare state. If you want tips on how to achieve it, just ask :)

― Frederik B, Monday, March 7, 2016 7:03 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so yeah when you drop little smug ain't i a dickens "lolz" in this thread like it's a fucking game, fuck you.

i know goddamn well since we lost our family farm when i was 13 cuz my dad died nobody's gonna catch you when you fall in america believe me. that's what we are trying to hash out. do we hope for more or worry that the alternatives are so dangerous that we should just hold on to what we have? that's a real fucking debate and who knows what's right?

i bet you like this a lot more than talking about the racism, anti-immigrant policies going on in your own country because that would involve you actually getting involved, having some fucking skin in the game.

This would be bullshit even if this exact thing hadn't happened in this thread in the last 24 hours.

Bernie is anti-racist and anti-white supremacy. He's said, many times, that the danger of Trump is xenophobia, and the only way to counter right wing populism is with a robust left wing populism that emphasizes the common interests of the working class regardless of race. I think that's a good point. It doesn't address every minority concern, and he can do more, but these lacunae don't make his movement somehow racist

One of the worst things about any sort of political discussion on ILX is this dumb sliding where the defense to the idea that someone isn't explicitly anti-racist is "but you're saying they're racist!".

your little fucking danish hobbit hole drinking mead

This seems harsh on those of us from hobbity lands.

is mead any good?

no offense to my ancestors
alfred - no

Yeah, I've lived and studied there.

Okay, then I understand it. But I do also agree with Upper Mississippi that it's kinda condescending to lecture to people who have a stake in the game that you as a foreigner will never have. (Unless you're actually planning to move to the US?) I know that bashing American conservatives and bigging up our own lovely welfare states comes easy to Nordic leftists, god knows I've done my share own share of it in the past, but it just ain't productive in any way and it comes off as smug. I'm sure most Americans in this thread would agree we have it better here, but the politics that shaped to our (mostly) homogenous, 5 million strong nations, cannot be applied as such to a much more heterogenous and multicultural country with 60 times more people.

Thread needs Niels for the Good Kjopp/ Bad Kjopp routine.

Isn't Niels Swedish?

not enough FPs in the world, get fucked Frederik

(xp) Danish.

Also, if you're aiming for Dane stereotypes, you should've spelled it "Kjøpp". :)

(xpost)

tuomas otm

Not sure how to get the, er, o with a line through it on my phone tbh

hold down the o key?

Prøbably

Here's your handy guide for Nordic lettering stereotypes:

Danes and Norwegians have the letter "ø", which the rest of us don't have.

Swedes use the "å" more than the others.

Finns only have "ä" and "ö", not the other weird ones.

Icelanders have some letters of their own that I can't even type or pronounce, don't even try to to do this with them.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/432464/correction-cruz-senate-endorsements

Ø

Cøøl

Œôöl

Xpost lol @ Mötley Crüz

is Frederick B a minority or a woman? just curious

lol @ that correction xp

cos if not then he needs to get in a very long line w that "Try listening to them" bs

Prince-with-no-Senate-endorsements

(xp) An angry Dane may well be a minority.

One of the worst things about any sort of political discussion on ILX is this dumb sliding where the defense to the idea that someone isn't explicitly anti-racist is "but you're saying they're racist!".

this is a fair point tbh. frederik's post seemed full of implication though. a better way for me to have framed this would be to say "bernie sanders is explicitly anti-racist. he could do better, and i think he'll try his best, but everything i know about him indicates he wants all americans to reap the benefits of a robust, national welfare state. i don't think his policies would disproportionally benefit whites, and tbh i haven't even seen black hillary voters claim that. they seem to like her for other reasons: her pragmatism, her experience, positive memories of the 90s when african americans had a higher employment rate."

i don't think his policies would disproportionally benefit whites

Then you don't understand how "colorblind" economic policy works in this country.

that's a pretty defeatist attitude. why do anything at all then?

what the fuck enough with this danish bullshit this isn't hamlet

are people still pretending poverty has nothing to do w oppression?

I love how tuomas has somehow become the euro voice of reason itt

Fuck that

Thomas Frank on Trump.

ppl still really trying to wrap their minds around trump supporters?

interesting article, and this is going to be one of the biggest challenges for Clinton when she faces Trump. What are the chances that she's going to denounce NAFTA and similar deals? What kind of plan does she have to keep more jobs in the US?

well it couldn't be that Americans are just voting for a massive celebrity of TV and film. /s

article is on point

that's a pretty defeatist attitude. why do anything at all then?

It looks from the outside (not throwing rocks - neither my home nor my adopted country have stellar records here) that the US is inching closer to non-colourblind economic policy. With the obvious result that barricades are going up even higher in response, so suggesting that 'neutral' economic policies have historically resulted in disproportionate benefit to whites is playing the race card, don't you want fairness, why do you hate black people with this racist policy etc etc etc.

we could look at what we did in the past and take an effort to better that