Il Douché and His Discontents: The 2016 Primary Voting Thread, Part 4

that fucking great, but when I've got a stepdad dying of pancreatic cancer, the Republicans talk of privatizing my mom's remain social security scare the fuck out of me - how will she live?

when i have a daughter in an urban public school yeah i stay up nights worrying about what education "reform" under a so-call sane republican like Kaisch would look like, what will this country look like when she grows up?

so when you say "spoken like a white liberal" you can go fuck yourself pal, go. fuck. yourself.

also i'm a hillary voter dipshit you don't know shit about me. why don't you look around yourself and see what you can do to affect he people that are experiencing racism and suffering around you and fuck off.

As Treeship says I live in a country that won the fight for a welfare state. If you want tips on how to achieve it, just ask :)

― Frederik B, Monday, March 7, 2016 7:03 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so yeah when you drop little smug ain't i a dickens "lolz" in this thread like it's a fucking game, fuck you.

i know goddamn well since we lost our family farm when i was 13 cuz my dad died nobody's gonna catch you when you fall in america believe me. that's what we are trying to hash out. do we hope for more or worry that the alternatives are so dangerous that we should just hold on to what we have? that's a real fucking debate and who knows what's right?

i bet you like this a lot more than talking about the racism, anti-immigrant policies going on in your own country because that would involve you actually getting involved, having some fucking skin in the game.

This would be bullshit even if this exact thing hadn't happened in this thread in the last 24 hours.

Bernie is anti-racist and anti-white supremacy. He's said, many times, that the danger of Trump is xenophobia, and the only way to counter right wing populism is with a robust left wing populism that emphasizes the common interests of the working class regardless of race. I think that's a good point. It doesn't address every minority concern, and he can do more, but these lacunae don't make his movement somehow racist

One of the worst things about any sort of political discussion on ILX is this dumb sliding where the defense to the idea that someone isn't explicitly anti-racist is "but you're saying they're racist!".

your little fucking danish hobbit hole drinking mead

This seems harsh on those of us from hobbity lands.

is mead any good?

no offense to my ancestors
alfred - no

Yeah, I've lived and studied there.

Okay, then I understand it. But I do also agree with Upper Mississippi that it's kinda condescending to lecture to people who have a stake in the game that you as a foreigner will never have. (Unless you're actually planning to move to the US?) I know that bashing American conservatives and bigging up our own lovely welfare states comes easy to Nordic leftists, god knows I've done my share own share of it in the past, but it just ain't productive in any way and it comes off as smug. I'm sure most Americans in this thread would agree we have it better here, but the politics that shaped to our (mostly) homogenous, 5 million strong nations, cannot be applied as such to a much more heterogenous and multicultural country with 60 times more people.

Thread needs Niels for the Good Kjopp/ Bad Kjopp routine.

Isn't Niels Swedish?

not enough FPs in the world, get fucked Frederik

(xp) Danish.

Also, if you're aiming for Dane stereotypes, you should've spelled it "Kjøpp". :)

(xpost)

tuomas otm

Not sure how to get the, er, o with a line through it on my phone tbh

hold down the o key?

Prøbably

Here's your handy guide for Nordic lettering stereotypes:

Danes and Norwegians have the letter "ø", which the rest of us don't have.

Swedes use the "å" more than the others.

Finns only have "ä" and "ö", not the other weird ones.

Icelanders have some letters of their own that I can't even type or pronounce, don't even try to to do this with them.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/432464/correction-cruz-senate-endorsements

Ø

Cøøl

Œôöl

Xpost lol @ Mötley Crüz

is Frederick B a minority or a woman? just curious

lol @ that correction xp

cos if not then he needs to get in a very long line w that "Try listening to them" bs

Prince-with-no-Senate-endorsements

(xp) An angry Dane may well be a minority.

One of the worst things about any sort of political discussion on ILX is this dumb sliding where the defense to the idea that someone isn't explicitly anti-racist is "but you're saying they're racist!".

this is a fair point tbh. frederik's post seemed full of implication though. a better way for me to have framed this would be to say "bernie sanders is explicitly anti-racist. he could do better, and i think he'll try his best, but everything i know about him indicates he wants all americans to reap the benefits of a robust, national welfare state. i don't think his policies would disproportionally benefit whites, and tbh i haven't even seen black hillary voters claim that. they seem to like her for other reasons: her pragmatism, her experience, positive memories of the 90s when african americans had a higher employment rate."

i don't think his policies would disproportionally benefit whites

Then you don't understand how "colorblind" economic policy works in this country.

that's a pretty defeatist attitude. why do anything at all then?

what the fuck enough with this danish bullshit this isn't hamlet

are people still pretending poverty has nothing to do w oppression?

I love how tuomas has somehow become the euro voice of reason itt

Fuck that

Thomas Frank on Trump.

ppl still really trying to wrap their minds around trump supporters?

interesting article, and this is going to be one of the biggest challenges for Clinton when she faces Trump. What are the chances that she's going to denounce NAFTA and similar deals? What kind of plan does she have to keep more jobs in the US?

well it couldn't be that Americans are just voting for a massive celebrity of TV and film. /s

article is on point

that's a pretty defeatist attitude. why do anything at all then?

It looks from the outside (not throwing rocks - neither my home nor my adopted country have stellar records here) that the US is inching closer to non-colourblind economic policy. With the obvious result that barricades are going up even higher in response, so suggesting that 'neutral' economic policies have historically resulted in disproportionate benefit to whites is playing the race card, don't you want fairness, why do you hate black people with this racist policy etc etc etc.

we could look at what we did in the past and take an effort to better that

Clinton came as close to getting the nomination as you can, kinda, the last time she tried, did a lot better than Sanders this year, actually. And now she is beating him decisively, 58%-42%, with a lot of his best states already done. She is way more popular among democratic voters than he is. And especially among minorities, and especially among black voters. Protesting that really, both candidates seem clueless about race is stupid (and perhaps almost offensive), because, y'know, a couple of 'races' are sending a pretty strong signal that one of the candidates gets it better than the other, y'know? Try listening to them.

Any hope of reclaiming new deal politics has to grapple with why the new deal coalition eventually failed. And you know why it did? Because the civil right laws of the 60'ies caused the white democrats in the south to change sides. That is, racism wasn't just something off to the side of the new deal, it's was a fundamental part of it's appeal in large parts of the country. It was vital; in the attempt to root it out, the coalition simply fell apart. As Bernie has shown, any new new deal that isn't specifically anti-racist and anti white-supremacy in design has no hope of making it, it has too little appeal to the people who were explicitly left out of the first new deal. And what is weird about that? Why should black people trust progressive democrats? Honestly, they've been screwed harder by new deal policies than by anything Clinton ever did to them.

I really want you guys to get free healthcare and free education and all that, but until american white liberalism starts to grapple with why it's correct to call it 'white liberalism', it won't happen. You will lose, and as demographics change you will lose worse and worse. And the joke is, nobody will care. Sanders will be your last gasp of relevance, and the coalition of minorities, single women and cultural/economic elites will continue to rule.

― Frederik B, Tuesday, March 8, 2016 6:12 AM (4 hours ago)

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54d2d94ce4b02d784c7edb4b/5514c5ece4b0ac8577a4ae35/5514c6fae4b03ac54f19867a/1427425022010/tumblr_m0bvpemaAA1qchjtmo1_500.gif

But our left party in America – one of our two monopoly parties – chose long ago to turn its back on these people’s concerns, making itself instead into the tribune of the enlightened professional class, a “creative class” that makes innovative things like derivative securities and smartphone apps.

thomas frank otm. fuck the rich

sautee them and eat them and their fucking $480,000 apartments in QUEENS

just leave DMC alone

kinda lame to lump actually useful smartphone apps in w derivative securities

what about candy crush

more like candy crush the working class

they made that in sweden

Cåndy Crøsh

@Frederick

It seems like you've been pushing this idea of Sanders and the Sanders campaign being racist ever since the BLM supporters interrupted his rally and got shouted down by Sanders' supporters. That idea seemed to ossify when TNC and others wrote thinkpieces suggesting that Bernie had some work to do on reaching out to other races if he wanted to win the nomination.

Then, he actually went and did some of that work. He pointed out his long history of working for civil rights and social justice. He reached out to BLM and wrote a whole chunk of his platform around it. He started saying the names at his rallies.

In the last couple of months, he got the endorsements of TNC, Cornell West, Belafonte, and Erica Garner.

And yet, you seem to be stuck in this idea that the only reason Sanders and his campaign aren't succeeding with minorities is that they are racist. This is pretty reductive, and leaves out all kinds of other reasons for why he might not be connecting well with other races.

They may be worried about his chances in the general. They might be worried that he doesn't have the level of foreign policy experience that Hillary earned as Sec of State. They might just be turned off by Sanders' strident style and relentless focus on one issue. They might be just turned off by a Jewish septuagenarian.

But trying to tie Bernie's support for New Deal-type programs to his lack of support from minorities is trollishly ridiculous, academic hot-take nonsense.

I mean, if Clinton was out there calling for reparations and making race the central issue of her campaign, then you might have a point, but she's not, and you don't.