Ongoing U.S Police Brutality and Corruption Discussion Thread

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the argument in this context is "when a thing stops being undeniably the case, people will be less inclined to think it is the case"

O, Barack: flaws (wins), Friday, 8 July 2016 14:57 (eight years ago) link

which I think is not wrong

O, Barack: flaws (wins), Friday, 8 July 2016 14:57 (eight years ago) link

right. No. I'm wrong. I realized that after I posted that.

how's life, Friday, 8 July 2016 14:57 (eight years ago) link

I get that it's a part of the larger story, but seeing the sensationalistic 'shooter wanted to kill whites' in every other headline is distressing and unhelpful.

some anal dread (Old Lunch), Friday, 8 July 2016 15:05 (eight years ago) link

not going to post it here but the new york post front page is a particularly vile example of that

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 8 July 2016 15:17 (eight years ago) link

i only posted that to show that was the headline.

im also surprised that there havent been more shootings of cops in the US in the past. amazed actually.

StillAdvance, Friday, 8 July 2016 15:20 (eight years ago) link

wouldn't expect anything less from that piece of shit rag

(•̪●) (carne asada), Friday, 8 July 2016 15:22 (eight years ago) link

deport rupert murdoch

lag∞n, Friday, 8 July 2016 15:29 (eight years ago) link

to the middle of the sun

imago, Friday, 8 July 2016 15:32 (eight years ago) link

for New York's lip-moving readers

helpless before THRILLARY (Dr Morbius), Friday, 8 July 2016 15:34 (eight years ago) link

I find the term civil war remarkably ambivalent but I guess that's not how other people are taking it

the ghost of tom, choad (thomp), Friday, 8 July 2016 15:36 (eight years ago) link

i've been avoiding posting about this shit. i don't have anything deep or even slightly informative to say anymore. i'm angry and i'm really scared. my life is totally disconnected from philando castile's. i can't get his name out of my head. he was pulled over and cited dozens of times in the last few months. he was killed a 10 min drive from my front door.

last night i saw that the dallas PD rolled a robot armed with a bomb and detonated it next to the last sniper suspect. that's something we learned to do in iraq.

goole, Friday, 8 July 2016 15:55 (eight years ago) link

nice photo CBS

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/751432908804685824/photo/1

frogbs, Friday, 8 July 2016 16:01 (eight years ago) link

i've been avoiding posting about this shit. i don't have anything deep or even slightly informative to say anymore.

this is how i feel too.

le Histoire du Edgy Miley (difficult listening hour), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:04 (eight years ago) link

DJP's post upthread about armed clashes w police sadly prescient

Οὖτις, Friday, 8 July 2016 16:08 (eight years ago) link

that's something we learned to do in iraq.

― goole, Friday, July 8, 2016 10:55 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's not all we learned. in my experience, there appears to be a lot of veterans who, upon returning, go into the police force. and it occurs to me that the type of guy who is most uniquely unsuited to community policing---almost as exactly wrong as an actual criminal---is a guy that learned everything he knows from kicking down doors in a warzone. and who might also have some unresolved PTSD/TBI/etc

no clue as to what the numbers are for former combat vets going into the police force, but i bet it's substantial, and i bet that, in addition to the MRAPs and AR15s, they're bringing that culture of occupation with them

jason waterfalls (gbx), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:14 (eight years ago) link

that's something we learned to do in iraq.

― goole, Friday, July 8, 2016 10:55 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbf we probably learned to do it in a university research lab somewhere

ejemplo (crüt), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:17 (eight years ago) link

like put those guys on SWAT or HRT or something, but keep them the hell away from traffic stops, esp if the only traffic stops they've ever known were armed checkpoints in zones of actual, persistent armed resistance, and where it was not entirely unreasonable to maintain vigilance even around children/old ladies/whatever

jason waterfalls (gbx), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:18 (eight years ago) link

I posted initially (FB) about Sterling and Castile, tbh in part out of a feeling that I at least wanted my black facebook friends to feel that people actually care about this. My friend group seems to be pretty insularly liberal to left and I don't have anyone to try to educate or push back on. I really have nothing to say that hasn't been said by a lot of people and I hate the impulse I have to try to say something original or pithy for likes. The only thing I hope is that no one feels like they should back off on police reform just because police officers were killed. Reform in the long run is better for police too.

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:22 (eight years ago) link

I think the bomb robot thing was developed as a way to detonate explosive devices or suspected explosive devices. this was the first I had heard of it being used directly against a person.

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:23 (eight years ago) link

like put those guys on SWAT or HRT or something, but keep them the hell away from traffic stops, esp if the only traffic stops they've ever known were armed checkpoints in zones of actual, persistent armed resistance, and where it was not entirely unreasonable to maintain vigilance even around children/old ladies/whatever

― jason waterfalls (gbx)

i don't even know about putting them on swat, given the internet fad for "swatting". it's a fucking miracle nobody's been killed because of that yet.

the event dynamics of power asynchrony (rushomancy), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:23 (eight years ago) link

xpost Yeah, kinda feel like the questionable inception of Bomb-Bot 2000 is going to get lost in the midst of this mess.

some anal dread (Old Lunch), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:25 (eight years ago) link

IDK how to feel about it -- they were in a long standoff with the guy and he was pretty well-armed, it seems, and you had several dead already. In this particular case it's hard to criticize, but I can certainly see the door being opened to horrible misuses in the future.

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:27 (eight years ago) link

Gbx, absolutely booming fucking posts this hour

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:28 (eight years ago) link

patrol cops need to be disarmed.

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:30 (eight years ago) link

nonlethal ammo and weapons with access to lethal when necessary
it makes no goddamn sense that the options are shoot and potentially kill or nothing when they feel threatened

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:31 (eight years ago) link

outside of that, yeah; it's another scary day in the USA

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:32 (eight years ago) link

i'm not going to start worrying about bomb-bot 2000 until they start crowdsourcing its programming to 4chan.

the event dynamics of power asynchrony (rushomancy), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:33 (eight years ago) link

this is the guy apparently

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm2ffTXUMAAKE4U.jpg

lag∞n, Friday, 8 July 2016 16:33 (eight years ago) link

cool that the suspect in the photo that the DPD originally tweeted out (who wound up getting thousands of death threats) was in fact one of those fabled "good guys with a gun"

frogbs, Friday, 8 July 2016 16:35 (eight years ago) link

good guy with an unloaded gun who immediately surrendered it to police because he recognized holding it was a threat to his life long before he knew the police considered him a suspect

lag∞n, Friday, 8 July 2016 16:37 (eight years ago) link

Blowing people up using robots is, uh, not a great development in the history of policing, anywhere in the world.

They could have been Stackridge. (Tom D.), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:38 (eight years ago) link

that's not all we learned. in my experience, there appears to be a lot of veterans who, upon returning, go into the police force. and it occurs to me that the type of guy who is most uniquely unsuited to community policing---almost as exactly wrong as an actual criminal---is a guy that learned everything he knows from kicking down doors in a warzone. and who might also have some unresolved PTSD/TBI/etc

the Army still markets itself like it did for decades, and who knows maybe in the past it was a good way for working class kids to get some training in skill and possibly money for a house or education, but I was thinking about the marketing of the Army as a "ladder up" and how, in reality, the Army experience leaves someone uniquely ill-suited to the modern workplace, which is much more fluid, team and discussion based, freelance economy, etc etc., like the Army is designed to take decision making OUT of the hands of people and replace that with protocol (I'd guess for good reason because of the deadly nature of the work) but in the modern workplace the ability to discuss and collaborate and learn new things quickly and juggle multiple projects and be a part of multiple teams etc etc is really at odds with the military mentality, so it's no wonder these guys go into the most familiar line of work: driving around in a vehicle packing a weapon

Steve Gunn Mann-Dude (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:38 (eight years ago) link

Otm

scarcity festival (Jon not Jon), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:39 (eight years ago) link

Blowing people up using robots is, uh, not a great development in the history of policing, anywhere in the world.

― They could have been Stackridge. (Tom D.), Friday, July 8, 2016 12:38 PM (17 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

heaven forbid they use some sort of non lethal robot weaponry

lag∞n, Friday, 8 July 2016 16:39 (eight years ago) link

this is kinda off-topic but there are a ton of ex-military dudes working in the community college system. idk why that is (and I only work with California) but it's definitely a thing.

Οὖτις, Friday, 8 July 2016 16:41 (eight years ago) link

that's not all we learned. in my experience, there appears to be a lot of veterans who, upon returning, go into the police force. and it occurs to me that the type of guy who is most uniquely unsuited to community policing---almost as exactly wrong as an actual criminal---is a guy that learned everything he knows from kicking down doors in a warzone. and who might also have some unresolved PTSD/TBI/etc

no clue as to what the numbers are for former combat vets going into the police force, but i bet it's substantial, and i bet that, in addition to the MRAPs and AR15s, they're bringing that culture of occupation with them

― jason waterfalls (gbx), Friday, July 8, 2016 11:14 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

As much as I agree with this, is there really any link to the Castile or Sterling shootings? Were any of the cops involved vets with PTSD? It seems to me like the profile I see more often of a shooter is either a shook, inexperienced rookie or an aggro asshole with a record of brutality, not a PTSD-stricken vet.

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:41 (eight years ago) link

whats interesting is this sort of thing hasnt really touched LA very significantly because the LAPD has had a very public very long program of re-ingratiating itself with community and working very hard to maintain trust.. after you know, a massive riot broke out because of police brutality.

xp

carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:42 (eight years ago) link

there's a desperate need to improve how we vet & hire cops but ultimately that would necessitate higher pay/bigger policing budget which we all know will never happen

skateboard of education (rip van wanko), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:43 (eight years ago) link

dallas police have a relatively good reputation for community relations too as far as that goes, still agents of the police state tho

lag∞n, Friday, 8 July 2016 16:44 (eight years ago) link

is there a thread about having crazy racist friends pop up out of nowhere on social media? i mean, this is a pretty common occurrence, right?

the event dynamics of power asynchrony (rushomancy), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:45 (eight years ago) link

i am in favor of paying cops better and vetting cops better and training cops better and disarming cops and it is frustrating that those imperatives are considered contradictory

thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:45 (eight years ago) link

yeah there have been a lot of stories going around about dallas actually being a relative success story in police reform, which makes the whole thing a lot sadder/more frustrating to the extent it gets used to blunt calls for reform.

socka flocka-jones (man alive), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:46 (eight years ago) link

they not gonna kill u theyre just gonna lock u up for life on some bs conspiracy charge, congratulations

lag∞n, Friday, 8 July 2016 16:47 (eight years ago) link

xp
like this one: https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertsamaha/dallas-police-numbers

Dominique, Friday, 8 July 2016 16:48 (eight years ago) link

not saying that there is any connection in either of those instances --- more observing that the movement from military to police brings with it weapons AND culture. and that affects not just veterans in the force, but everyone: a rookie internalizes the idea that they're patrolling a warzone filled with potential enemies, and pops off because he gets scared. an aggro asshole justifies his aggression on the grounds that he's the only force for order in an otherwise savage environment. that some cops might have undiagnosed combat-related PTSD and/or TBI is noted simply as a possibility, and one that might figure in significantly into at least a few police interactions

xps

jason waterfalls (gbx), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:49 (eight years ago) link

being a cop is plenty to give u ptsd on its own

lag∞n, Friday, 8 July 2016 16:52 (eight years ago) link

i bet

jason waterfalls (gbx), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:58 (eight years ago) link

i am so completely unimpressed by ppl's reactions to this shit. you really have a problem with bad cops? go be a good cop.

yolo mostly (sleepingbag), Friday, 8 July 2016 16:59 (eight years ago) link


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