Curb Your Authoritarianism? The 2016 Conventional Wisdom Thread (Elections, Part 6)

I don't know if there's any precedent to go by for what Cruz did tonight--the Rockefeller situation TNR cites seems close.

i think his motive here was as personal as it was political

trumps different historys not going to help you

The personal is political, I heard that online once xp

he's been a weasel his whole life and today he finally stood up and calmly told crowd of republican delegates to get fucked (paraphrase) as they booed him.

as a human i commend him

i heard all politics is local so maybe focus on cleveland idk?

(xpost) I hope so, and I'm 1000% in favor of him if that's true. I mean, I'm amazed that the CNN panelists siding with Trump evidently think you should just swallow four months of being called a pathological liar, of the Heidi photo, the JFK insanity, etc.

cruzes bigger hurdle is that hes an asshole who everyone hates

considering that maybe his behavior tonight shdnt come as too much of a surprise

he wasn't being an asshole the way he normally is, though. usually he is sneaky and underhanded and does this whole cruz-sader schtick.

tonight he was blunt and dare i say principled. new phase in his moral development, although i'm sure he turned back into a slime monster at midnight

idk feel like he must do a lot of blunt asshole moves to get that many ppl to hate him theyre just usually behind closed doors

the real tell he was up to something is that he didn't even mention clinton

― iatee, Wednesday, July 20, 2016 9:51 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think this is part of what made the speech work as an ultimate "Fuck You"--the whole speech felt like something the nominee would give, focusing mainly on American and conservative values and including some specific "uniter not a divider" moments (mentioning Alton Sterling, including references to the rights of gays and muslims). And Cruz didn't have any of the "lock her up" red meat his fellow defeated nominees focused on, which is honestly part of the job if you're speaking at the convention. It was a speech specifically written to make Cruz look presidential.

To give a speech like that, which was also better delivered just about any other speech this convention, and THEN not endorse Trump and tell people to vote their conscience, was pretty cold-blooded.

granted there was still plenty of dividing in the speech--he cheerfully endorsed the border wall, iirc

i mean to get everyone who shd be yr allies to hate you youve prob got to have the full toolbox of asshole techniques

its so crazy that hes made it as far as he has while alienating everyone

But as someone said earlier, the truly principled thing would have been a repudiation (causing a veritable riot, based on the reaction to what he did do), or a refusal to attend...he kind of split the middle. Artfully, yes. I don't know. Lots of analysis the next 24 hours.

i think this was better than a refusal to attend. Kasich's not attending, and while that may be the wiser move for "Kasich 2020," no one really cares about it.

i think "vote your conscience" counts as a repudiation xp

hes not playing dumb even tho he has some wiggle room

Glenn Thrush ‏@GlennThrush 15m15 minutes ago Cleveland, OH
.@tedcruz just told me: 'I had to speak the truth... It's going to be an interesting couple of days. The chips will fall where they may.'

its so crazy that hes made it as far as he has while alienating everyone

― lag∞n, Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:15 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm, I said this in one of the other threads, but to me the best thing about this election has been the multiple "everyone from every stage of Ted Cruz's life hates him" hit pieces, all crammed full of specific details that make him look like a total weasel.

yeah its incredible i dont think i ever seen anyone sufficiently explain the mechanism of his rise, like he was crazily successful in the private sector too

(xposts) I meant just as the principled thing to do, not as tactics or what'll get the most attention. Staying home makes it clear you think Trump is unacceptable. Showing up and speaking, and theatrically/artfully not endorsing but not unambiguously saying don't vote for this guy ("vote your conscience" might be close, but will he then go on record and say "I'm voting for Hillary because Donald Trump cannot be allowed to be president"?), I'd count that as less principled, if you believe that's what motivated Cruz. Personal pique about the way Trump belittled him, that's different--that I do count as principled in a way.

https://media.riffsy.com/images/9c337927380dcdead37e2a88c71f48ad/raw

Fuck each and every person associated with the republican party's bid for president, they're animals anyway so let them lose their souls

If Cruz had had a wartime consigliere, a Trump-like monster, he wouldn't be in this shape.

lol "dont stay home in november" is a p masterful setup for the heal turn u can watch him manipulate the crowds emotions they think the endorsements coming then he pulls the knife out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFfBfEDokIg

missed trump rushing the floor at the end

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MHDSBvI7J4

Rating just a hair below the whole government shutdown move, Cruz getting finger-flicked by his daughter was a defining moment of his career for me.

interesting facts/thoughts abt who knew what when http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/okay-it-got-much-weirder

trump team def had the speech in advance whether they read or understood it tho

my guess is they didn't read it. more charitably, maybe they did read it, but thought cruz's tone would be more conciliatory. Like the lack of a formal endorsement would come across as just saving face, not an "aggressive" non-endorsement.

Are Trump's team good at reading speeches before they get delivered?

Or Cruz will be found dead some time in the next 24 hours.

Probably they read it and didn't get it

Let's not forget this guy is a yuge creep and probably a more dangerous potential president than Trump

please note this is the 3rd 'prosperity gospel' preacher at mic & no evangelicals in 3 nights

how much of a difference is there? and to whom does it matter?

― mookieproof

x1000p: not all christians are cargo cultists.

all this talk on cruz's political future is contingent on the republican party having a political future. this is a party that literally agrees on nothing except that hillary clinton is a criminal and needs to be locked up. they'll clean up on the 2018 midterms with that, especially since most of america agrees with them, but i don't see any way this total divide on basic political principles does not become a permanent rift.

Dick tom:

Richard M. Nixon ‏@dick_nixon 9h9 hours ago
Cruz isn't Rockefeller '64 because this confirms what everybody hates Cruz for already.

Alan Cole
‏@AlanMCole
"Widmerpool, once so derided by all of us, had in some mysterious manner become a person of authority. Now... it was he that derided us".

how could trump win with his own party so divided

By getting more votes than his opponent.

cruz may have evil degenerate principles but unlike most of the other assholes in his party at least he has them

xp um thx? pretty sure that was implied as the result of having a divided party. i am aware of how elections work.

was this ever solved?

https://twitter.com/radiatoryang/status/755970044174139392

^ it's more fun (?) in gif

how much of a difference is there? and to whom does it matter?

a huge segment of the evangelicals are very uncomfortable with/genuinely against prosperity gospel types. like, they publish pamphlets about how prosperity gospel is heresy. I know because I buy these pamphlets, because I can't help myself.

http://so4j.com/images/false-teachers-and-false-prophets.jpg

this is a party that literally agrees on nothing except that hillary clinton is a criminal and needs to be locked up.

you're forgetting those who want her shot

and i doubt that "most of america agrees with" the wingnut fringe that wants hillary locked up

...and/or shot

Right but the Party is not a plurality of the vote, or anything near it - you win by getting people whom aren't members of your party to win, and there is evidence that such people are even less interested in intraparty matters than ever before.