I've had people say it's a hardening, actually ~ US presidential election 2016 part 9/11 never forget

Hurricane Matthew will likely deep six this debate pretty soon, so I don't think either campaign is really going to put a lot of effort into using it to their advantage.

Though it would be funny if Trump goes into a meltdown because Pence didn't suitably live up to his wingman duties in Trump's estimation.

man, that was pretty painful. i like kaine generally but he got off to a really bad start w/ the interruptions only a couple minutes in. looked even worse when he said "isn't this a discussion?" to justify it. otherwise i thought he did fine but that was a bad way to kick off a 90-minute debate. and yeah awesome answer on the clinton foundation stuff. pence exuded a sort of slimy confidence that kind of reminded me of cheney in his VP debates. found myself feeling like i'd be more worried if he were the guy at the top of the ticket. attempt to revive "there you go again" pretty weak though.

pence was slick and had weird skin that made him look like he was wearing a mask. measured and calm responses but did he ever answer a single question posed to him? he definitely never answered about North Korea and his answer to 'when has your personal faith been a challenge' didn't answer the 'challenge' part of that at all.

does mike pence look like strax off of dr. who? I've only seen bit here and there (of dr. who and of mike pence) but this just occurred to me

Yeah, Pence kept avoiding a defense of Trump, but pointing this out is not really an effective line of attack.

For any other candidate it would - this guy wants to make huge changes, but if he can't get his second-in-command remotely on the same page, how can he work with anyone to get this done? But yeah his remaining supporters are people who don't care and/or really really hate that Feminazi.

For reference, Strax:
https://gallifreyarchive.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/strax.jpg

that's not a v flattering photo

http://humourpro.com/images/Mike-Pence-As-VP-2.jpg

you can find anything on the internet

Pence did better in his debate than Trump did in his, so now Trump is pissed off at Pence.

Haaaaaaa. I KNEW that Trump would find something to petulantly manbaby about wrt Pence's VP debate performance. Because of course he would.

Seems like a fantasy but if not holy shit

I really, really hope that lots of 'Hmmm, maybe Pence should've been the nominee' thinkpieces get floated over the next couple of days. Trump will flip his effing wig.

A bunch of troop-supportin' patriots attacked Kaine over his Blue Star parent pin again last night on Twitter, btw.

Trump's gonna call the talk radio stations as "John Miller" to badmouth Pence

I really, really hope that lots of 'Hmmm, maybe Pence should've been the nominee' thinkpieces get floated over the next couple of days. Trump will flip his effing wig.

this seems plausible

IMO Trump made a mistake going with a 'traditional' Republican rather than someone who would gladly follow him off a cliff like Guiliani or Christie

kinda reminds me of how Trump didn't even want Pence in the first place

good times

A reminder that Kasich was basically offered the job of Actual President.

Also anything that would cause Trump to get more paranoid (you can be sure that Alex Jones has some theories about an 'accident' scheduled for Trump on Jan 21st) = long term good.

Hey, does anybody know what that thing is on Trump's face? I'm no doctor but I think he should have it looked at. And have you noticed that weird guy who's hovering in the background of all public Trump photos lately? He sure is creepy. Wonder what his deal is.

Nate Silver is saying the veep debate could have a wide range of impact from being forgotten in 24 hours to causing a huge green scaly monster to invade Huntsville, AL

https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/783645247247114240

i had no idea Pence looked like the cave critters in The Descent

lol Neanderthal

A preview of 2020, after Pence has had four more years of work done to his mug:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/cenobite/images/0/08/Chatterer-bust-.jpg

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2016/10/04/bill-weld-says-will-use-libertarian-vice-presidential-platform-focus-fire-donald-trump/NQcxRVjXXeIY2mfhVXvyKP/story.html

lol this is great

I'd love to hear from Dan and my Massachusetts brethren about William Weld, for whom I've had polite respect for years until he hooked up with a rock climber who doesn't own a world atlas.

Weld was governor when I started college; he is genuinely a socially-liberal/fiscally-conservative type and willing to compromise in order to solve problems. I also sang with his niece in undergrad.

the northeastern US flavor of republican not as objectionable, imo

I mean, until they start marketing themselves to the whole country in a presidential campaign. I don't think Weld could market himself as a republican nationally, leading to where he is now

Yeah, he doesn't have the same disingenuous streak as Romney.

that pence ad is pretty great

I'd love to hear from Dan and my Massachusetts brethren about William Weld,

I was living but not voting in Massachusetts in the time, but I would have voted for him against noted asshole albeit Democrat John Silber

I only head about Silber after the fact since I got to the state shortly after the election; I would have voted against him, too.

Charles Pierce has a lot of respect for Weld:

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a45382/william-weld-libertarian-ticket/

I remember Weld's losing his Senate race against Kerry.

I also sang with his niece in undergrad.

isn't there a freshman dorm named after his family?

There is!

that pence ad was great...maybe that was kaine's marching orders huh?

ol'lunch

I really, really hope that lots of 'Hmmm, maybe Pence should've been the nominee' thinkpieces get floated over the next couple of days. Trump will flip his effing wig.

Dana Milbank is way ahead of you, he was already talking "buyer's remorse" shortly after midnight

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/mike-pence-gives-republicans-buyers-remorse/2016/10/05/8be23d9c-8a72-11e6-bff0-d53f592f176e_story.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paiBwhs2L7Q

There's a whole lotta fun headlines today like 'Everybody Won the VP Debate But Trump'. Between that and the new ad, how long can Trump possibly keep quiet? Will he make it an entire 24 hours without planting his foot in his mouth?

I love how unwilling the media is to call Pence the clear winner. Kaine was just awful. As far as swaying undecided voters, Pence did such a good job on style, and if you're still undecided at this point, you are a clinical moron, so content does not matter!!! This is a nice little key bump for Trump, but it'll be forgotten soon. LOVE these stories coming out that Trump is pissed that he was upstaged by his running mate, more please!

Has anyone seen Trump commercials after the debate? This time the pundits actually seem to think the republican won, so perhaps they would tout that?

Didn't see the debate, but the Clinton camp has been remarkable at stitching clips together to make Kaine seem smart and honest.

To echo what I said here during the debate, Kaine may not have come off as well but he certainly had less trouble navigating criticisms. Pence on the other hand, as much practice as he has deflecting- there was just no way he could possibly steer around the massive Trump turds Kaine merely needed to point at. Flat out denying them was interesting but it is damn pretty short sighted when there is blatant video evidence proving pretty much every single instance. To me that suggests that their koolaid is so strong internally that none of them even fathomed that it would be something they need to prepare to respond to. Like they really believe that Trump isn't on tape spouting this shit. Or else, with all of the days of debate prep Pence is implied to have had dedicated, they surely would have prepared something more like a justification rather than flat out denial?

Never forget: Pence is a product of talk radio. He knows how to modulate tone and deal with callers even more livid than he.

I feel like when Kaine was getting ready to respond he sat up straighter, angled his face a certain way and was ready to deliver his lines.. seeing that new ad I understand why. pretty well done.

If one were inclined to grant the GOP a degree of intelligence and strategic ability, one might float a conspiracy theory that Trump was allowed to become the nominee because, as such an extreme outlier, he's able to completely short out the opposition's compass re: their party's general debasement, thereby giving less extreme candidates a much better shot in future elections. I'll admit, I found it difficult last night to keep reminding myself of what a turd Pence is because he's operating so high above the discursive bar that Trump has lowered.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ct-ErIEW8AAnkxk.jpg

heh

https://twitter.com/Slate/status/783385174792818689

If one were inclined to grant the GOP a degree of intelligence and strategic ability, one might float a conspiracy theory that Trump was allowed to become the nominee because, as such an extreme outlier, he's able to completely short out the opposition's compass re: their party's general debasement, thereby giving less extreme candidates a much better shot in future elections. I'll admit, I found it difficult last night to keep reminding myself of what a turd Pence is because he's operating so high above the discursive bar that Trump has lowered.

The problem with that strategy is that while it makes some amount of sense long-term, it requires careful management of the seething nativist horde they have whipped up in the short term and relies on them remaining a significant portion of their coalition when they pivot back towards seeming reasonableness; this may be a problem when they people currently buoying them are feeding off of the blatant unreasonableness their tar baby* candidate has whipped up.

* This is an accurate description of Trump assuming a GOP long-term rope-a-dope strategy that I use knowing full well the inherent irony.

It made more sense in the primaries and kind of worked - Trump made John Kasich look moderate to a lot of people who didn't know much about him. Then Trump won, oops.

xp

The 'conspiracy theory' that Trump was given the nomination so he could flame out and allow less extreme candidates a better chance in the future makes no sense if you think about it for more than a minute. You can't 'allow' someone extreme to win unless there is already either a majority or a near-majority of extremists in your voting base to vote for him. In which case, Trump is no "outlier". He represents the party grassroots pretty damn well.