Rolling Brexit Links/UK politics in the neo-Weimar era

(ffs ILX is obsessed with that album)

Hardly a safety valve but a complete turnover of "the people's wish". I will help you hope for it but I can't see it happening. Xp

Lol Tom

That's the thing. If it becomes three years of "they'll make us vote again until they get the result they like1!1!1!!!" its fucked. If it becomes "you get to say if you think the Brexit deal is a good one" that could work.

The margin isn't that big, after all. And polls have Remain in the lead. Why are we so scared of these cunts? (By which I mean the hard-right shit-stirrers, not every Leaver)

They own the newspapers.

Blocking it might be counterproductive when the alternative is to let the dire economic consequences become more apparent and wait for public opinion to turn with the hope of voting against it in the future. A second referendum looks more and more likely eventually. As the does the prospect of Britain actually reapplying for EU membership within our lifetimes.

doesn't it feel more likely that actually more EU countries will follow us out of the EU and we will have a lovely fascist Europe? cf National Front second place in France, with elections next year, or the Netherlands, where the Eurosceptic party is in the lead with elections soon to come

or the Netherlands, where the Eurosceptic party the fascist, racist party is in the lead

Agree with you tho, said it before: Brexit and its ugly fascist nature is what will happen to many other EU countries.

Kier Starmer stanning for immigration controls
http://www.politico.eu/article/keir-starmer-britains-last-remaining-hope/

Ctrl F "legitimate"

Oh hi, I had an idea earlier..

http://www.johnpye.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Backing_Britain_Badge-smaller-2.jpg

Could we get some badges like these, but with "I'm Blocking Brexit" ?

I think that'd be good, thought it through and owt..

That Politico article is painful in how much the writers want Starmer as leader.

I don't think many countries will be clamouring to leave the EU when they see what happens to the uk post exit.

Depends how that gets spun though. Britain turning into a shit-tip may be a fact but these guys don't gi a fuck about facts

I've seen a small shift in Denmark. We had a referendum last year on whether or not DK should let the parliament let DK stay in Europol - it's all a bit complex, but basically people are afraid an agreement would include European immigrant politics as well - which was voted down. But the nay-sayers promised that it would be easy to get a special agreement with Europol, which of course has turned out to be untrue. At this point almost every other party is openly accusing the DPP - Danish Peoples Party, the Danish UKIP, basically, though they've refused to have anything to do with UKIP - of deceit and lying. They're definitely playing on the fact that people has seen the chaos after Brexit, and that the same thing could be said to have happened here on a smaller scale.

I voted no in that referendum as well, btw. The whole question was weaselly done to assure everyone that we could still be as uncaring to refugees as we wanted, and I couldn't stand that bullshit. It's all a bit lol to me, much less serious than Brexit.

France would be the one I'd be worried about.

Way stronger far right and equally belligerent post-imperial boner.

Le Pen was six points ahead of Sarko in the last public poll I saw but still only had 28% of the vote - which is 28% too much but probably not enough to stop Juppé being the next president. If a handful of the old-guard French industrialists lined up behind her she'd have a chance. I'm still not entirely convinced that any of the large Western European countries could go full fash until fascism serves the interests of capital, which Le Pen doesn't, but that might be naive.

The bickering US left could learn something from the French socialists in their willingness to vote against le pen, no matter what. Obviously that was a while ago - not sure they have the discipline to do that again - and the centre-right won't return the favour.

see capital doesn't even need fascism in power, it just needs it to hold enough gravity to persuade leftists that a vote for the status quo is always a necessary sacrifice

That's what people who died fighting the nazis were doing.

French standing in Europe gets elevated post-Brexit - they suddenly become even more important partner to Germany - and among the public at large there is an extremely strong pro-European sentiment even among lumpen Le Pennists

Labour will vote against A.50 if the government doesn't rule out leaving the single market.

Or 'guarantee access to', to be more precise.

the only obvious position open to them at this point i think

05/11/2016, 23:57
@AaronBastani @paulmasonnews "access" not an issue. Terms of that access are. EU won't discuss those until A50 triggered.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/06/high-court-ruling-brexit-not-sabotaging-parliamentary-democracy-best-deal-britain?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

A mighty and coruscating editorial in the observer.

otm

picture of Judge Jeffreys getting the shit kicked out of him not really an appropriate analogy tbf

It would be fun to be actually in favour of Brexit. You would feel that a really big good thing was happening.

literally every single Brexiter tossing and turning in their beds at night, every last one of them lost to fever dreams that the settlement will never be racist enough, united as a solid body determined to protect the Englishness of their DNA down to the last base

It misleads and distorts – either deliberately or out of ignorance.

Observer editorial far too lenient here. This is unquestionably wilful, malevolent.

As we have seen in this country, the far right doesn't actually need to win power in the conventional sense, it needs to be just powerful enough to frighten 'mainstream' politicians into co-opting its language. Britain's far-right proper has been piss-weak in comparison to France's and remains so, virtually no one is going to go out and vote for the BNP even now, it's the rise of the 'respectable' far right that's fucked us.

I was certainly under the impression that France was even more Eurosceptic than Britain, even if France lacks our moronic island mentality. I think having been under totalitarian control within living memory also plays a part as well, Britain is stupid and complacent about its place in the world precisely because it has been so unusually stable for so long.

Also how the hell have we got to the point where the most left-wing Labour Party in a generation is the party defending free trade against the Tories?

Xp

There's are a couple of related issues at play.

Firstly, almost nobody really understands the finer points of the 'constitution'. Public ignorance is one factor (you pretty much have to have taken law at university to be taught anything about it) and there are as many grey areas as black and white principles. Afaict, a lot of constitutional law experts were surprised by the decision.

Secondly, the law has been shifting away from unchecked executive power and, to some extent, unchecked parliamentary power for a long time, something that has arguably accelerated since 1998. It is probably incorrect to talk about an activist judiciary but the trend towards challenging government decisions does arguably reflect a judiciary that feels more empowered and is willing to test the boundaries in a way more conservative judges might not thirty years ago.

Thirdly, this is not a madness Brexit has wrought. May, Blunkett and Straw all attacked the judiciary for perceived attempts to overstep their power, backed by a baying press. You saw that in the Belmarsh case in 2004 and repeatedly since then. Home Secretaries have used the judiciary as a punching bag and the tabloids as a cudgel when they didn't get their own way. It's tempting to see the reaction as a tantrum on the part of Dacre, etc, but the roots are deeper and more insidious.

Britain is stupid and complacent about its place in the world precisely because it has been so unusually stable for so long.

This feels very true.

We are due a civil war, yes.

Never mind me I just came here to laugh @ this:

Tracy King Verified account
‏@tkingdot

Retweet if you would like a Labour leader who opposes Brexit

Thanks.

We're about six months late for that.

Britain is stupid and complacent about its place in the world precisely because it has been so unusually stable for so long.

This is true though I can't think of any other Western nation where terrorists came within a ba' hair of wiping out a Prime Minister and most of their cabinet - not once but twice. Maybe not twice but the second attack was unique enough.

An Italian PM has been kidnapped and murdered within living memory

at least current 2 EU members were still Fascist dictatorships when the UK joined tbf

wait, which two? spain and portugal both joined after the UK (and were no longer dictatorships)

oh sorry, misread: "current" meaning "are members now but weren't then"

Jeremy Corbyn MP ✔ @jeremycorbyn
There must be transparency and accountability on Brexit terms. We won't block Article 50 but will fight for a Brexit that works for Britain
12:01 PM - 6 Nov 2016

clown shoes wearers, the lot of them

✔

We won't block Article 50 but will fight for a Brexit that works for Britain

How are you going to do that when you've just pissed any leverage you might have had up the wall? I wanted to believe Corbyn was getting better at his job but this sort of naivety and incompetence is difficult to overlook.

Watson has been a cunt about this as well.

If they block A50 then I think it likely there will be a General Election, which will be it for Labour as we currently know it.

Nah, there will need to be an Opposition just because people will always want the chance to vote for one - it won't be the Lib Dems, and the SNP won't be around forever.

Worded badly - I meant the current Corbyn lead Labour. He wouldn't survive, and knows it. Labour would obviously still exist, albeit badly wounded