Rolling Brexit Links/UK politics in the neo-Weimar era

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2016/11/15/john-mcdonnell-backs-brexit-enormous-opportunity-britain

No government can resist (the moral pressure)

great to see some love for this early 90s banger

Shadow chancellor John McDonnell said that Labour would not seek to prevent or delay Brexit, labeling those trying to do so as being "on the side of certain corporate elites".

do these cunts know what 'opposition' means

I suppose floating the idea that it could be good if done correctly is designed to make May look worse when it all falls apart.

Simpler than that, McDonnell and Corbyn have never been in favour of the UK being in the EU.

fuck these brexiting cunts. they've made chumps of us all.

Just keep repeating the word 'elite' enough, people will start to like you. Also the "it only helps big business" line doesn't quite work when you're simultaneously arguing that Britain needs to remain within the single market, and you don't really know what you think about free movement.

The Lexit argument is just going to look more and more feeble up against front pages like this, which are only going to increase in volume and ferocity post-Brexit.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/covers/287x361front/2016-11-14.jpg

Stephen Bush linked to that Lewis interview with these comments:

Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 2h2 hours ago
Team Corbyn are getting sharper: wheeling out the black guy (& activists' darling) to do the anti-immigration thing

Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 2h2 hours ago
And make no mistake, Lewis is not freelancing - this is very much a decision from the top.

if it *has* come from the top, that is interesting/depressing. Lewis wrote this a couple of years ago, there's nothing here that's contradicted by anything in the new interview exactly, but definitely a different emphasis: http://www.clivelewis.org/ukip_and_immigration_policy

good tweet-thread here from james butler on the conflicted nature of the choices facing the left: https://twitter.com/piercepenniless/status/798559698421215236

It’s that mixed character which wrongfooted much of British left on Brexit, forced to choose between two bad options: embolden the right or ‘endorse’ a hugely exploitative, unequal Fortress Europe. Two bad options. So much of the left opted for fantasy (“lexit”) or silence

(he doesn't just mean labour, he's talking about further left)

so 48% of us deserve no representation at all.

I repeat 'elite' daily, as in 'the elite-controlled dailies'.

If McD & JC could've just said 'OUR plans work in or out of Europe' and kept on hedging all bets I might've settled for that.

Little Timmy Farron is bustin' a gut to represent you.

imago told us upthread to to go back our constituencies and prepare for government

imago told us upthread to to go back our constituencies bedrooms and prepare for government

go back to your constituencies and prepare your stocks of bottled water, nonperishable food and weapons

so 48% of us deserve no representation at all.

And nearly 63% if you consider non-voters as implicitly accepting the status quo ...

I look forward to the Tories using that one to claim a crushing 75% mandate at the next general election.

Hypothetically, what do people think the route to stopping Brexit would be if Labour was as fired up about it as the SNP?

Matt DC's suggestion above is def. a good start.

If the numbers were there Lib Dems would have a much higher polling and Farron would be leading a rally of 200K on Westminster to shows us all how its done. Not seeing any signs of that...and polling I've seen since then shows the country is still divided.

Ultimately I do expect a push for staying in the Economic area - and the EU insists that comes with freedom of movement. So that is the real call that Labour have to make. Assume the quotes are a play for time/not showing your hand too early. You don't have to be a pessimist to see this as a fuck-up but hey we are all bystanders in this shitshow.

not if we form a party

you'll be my Culture Secretary

calzino gets Defence

Dear Andrew,
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which month was the edstone

so 48% of us deserve no representation at all.

I'm really sure there's more than 48% of us now.

I think relying on numbers arguments is a big dead end. What if a real majority genuinely support a morally abhorrent policy?

i think someone mentioned it before now, possibly upthread here, but the very least someone should do is to challenge boris or whoever whenever they use the words 'clear mandate' about brexit because 51.9% is really just scraping through.

I agree the mandate claims are dishonest as fuck

I think relying on numbers arguments is a big dead end.

Tell it to those who want us to junk the economy and embrace fascism because 52% voted for it. xp

And we believe they're wrong, therefore

Yeah you know I think there is a point here. Its wonderful how RBS and Deutsche Bank have turned it around after a bit of help from the Draghi and friends, plus all the austerity we had to put up with was worth it. And since the referendum the EU have put the boot into fascism! Seen a real, no nonsense attitude to tyrants like Erdogan and Orban.

I am willing to give the EU a 2nd chance on another referendum. All is forgiven!

don't brexit til i go home (30 Nov)

I can't buy into "we need to counter their bad faith arguments with our own bad faith arguments", whether it be nationalism or populism

I was just listening on R4 to a single primary school teacher with 2 children from London who is technically homeless and living in emergency accommodation. Brexit aside, London already deserves to be annexed by the North Sea.

with your Defence budget, you can make that a reality!

i'd just spend it wine

But seriously, didn't Khan didn't Khan run his mayoral campaign on housing?

on^ wine

scuse the bad typing

to a single primary school teacher with 2 children from London who is technically homeless and living in emergency accommodation

ah, a metropolitan elite, according to 7 million comfortably retired house-owning pensioners

(sorry, more bad faith arguments)

Even in the milk snatcher years I can't ever recall getting taught by a primary school teacher who is basically living in a homeless shelter with her kids.

Ships not going to have missiles anymore

Which AFAIK in modern navwar terms means basically they'll have no weapons, an exocet could one-shot a ship and that was back in the Falklands

Confetti cannons.

t-shirt cannons

https://image.spreadshirtmedia.net/image-server/v1/products/141271738/1466758834/keep-calm-and-brexit-t-shirts-womens-v-neck-t-shirt.jpg

i don't know what to tell you nv, i'm guessing we're on the same page, but i wasted some minutes yesterday arguing w/some idiot on a friend's fb page who was, with a straight face, arguing that Brexit would be a boon and that it was fine for the govt to play its cards close to its chest and that this was in no way a con only the lamest rube could fall for, and his main argument was, "The majority voted for it." This sense of a majority - the slimmest majority - is key to their argument, it is their fuel, their justification, and I don't think they have that majority anymore, i think some of the lemmings have thought twice about jumping off the cliff. so i think it's worth thinking about.

"The Will Of The British People" seems to be the buzz-phrase used by all of these pro-Brexit clowns. It drives me absolutely mad. "The Will Of The British People has given us a clear mandate! You can't frustrate the Will Of The British People or who knows what will happen!"

this post examines the "will of the people" stuff in some detail: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/brexit-is-not-the-will-of-the-british-people/

I do think, for this to be truly democratic, the public needs a vote on the actual terms of Brexit once they're agreed - whether that's by a further referendum or an election - as opposed to the vague fantasy version of Brexit we were sold last time.

This is why Corbyn/McDonnell's stance here is so exasperating, but also I suspect why the government is so clueless right now, because they know the actual terms of Brexit will be unpopular. Whether any of this is possible within the current legal framework I have no idea.

I have a growing feeling that there will be another vote. Is this purely wishful thinking on my part?

I think the only possibility of another (public, if that's what you meant) vote would be as a General Election, and Labour seem to have all but ruled that out now.