Social Activism in the Age of Trump: What To Do and What We Are Doing

I increasingly feel that the only point of mass street protests is collective therapy for the participants. their immediate political impact is basically nil.

You're not the only one. Micah White from Occupy just came out with a new book about this, and wrote a lot about it on his site. Dude moved to Nehalem, OR(about 90 miles W of Portland on the Coast) to run for mayor, figuring that you gotta start somewhere to get access to the lowest rungs of power.

Here he is talking about it on "This is Hell."

I increasingly feel that the only point of mass street protests is collective therapy for the participants. their immediate political impact is basically nil.

― Οὖτις, Thursday, December 8, 2016 2:03 PM (thirty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in ages past huge crowds of people in the street could be interpreted by the powerful as imminent potential threats of violence but that's basically over.

― Οὖτις, Thursday, December 8, 2016 2:05 PM (thirty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah not just due to nefarious machinations of the unreachable power elite, but because polarization (and the near-tie of the election) means that policymakers can always look out the window and say "eh, the opposite point of view would get just as many people marching; why should I do anything different because people are marching? It's always something with those people and they'll never be happy, so fuck them."

This is probably true and yet I will probably still do it. I remember being out on the national Mall on some very cold days in 2001-2008 without any hope that W. would look out the window and say, "oh, shit, guys wait - there's a nonflattering puppet of me; maybe I should reconsider!"

Where do you think polarization comes from? Did people, who share similar interests, all of a sudden decide to divide themselves because of unproveable bullshit?

These machinations aren't "nefarious", they're just business. I grew up with one of these people, propaganda guy in the military, did PR for energy companies. He published climate change denial material, and he didn't believe any of it, he just liked money and power, his employers hired him for that, and he had zero care whatsoever for human life. and I mean zero care, he had to maintain a fake persona to cover up his utter contempt for humanity just so people wouldn't throw him off a cliff. He was most certainly a blackhearted piece of shit, and if you could get inside his mind, it'd be like a Lovecraftian nightmare. This is some of the stuff you're up against.

It seems hard for people to understand that there are people out there who really, seriously do not give a flying shit for human beings the way normal people do, and they like money and power, and there's a lot of for the taking in the US. Don't think these Trump types will have mercy on you or our country, because it's not gonna happen, they'll turn us into a field of ashes if it somehow benefits them. The only thing that works, in my experience, is using power to screw around with their cost-benefit analysis somehow.

And what power do we, average peons, have nowadays? No fucking idea. Smart move to sort-of disempower us and take away our leverage as employees, as informed and educated citizens, as community members in solidarity, as having voices in the public sphere, and as consumers... almost like each aspect of our power leverage has been tampered with and taken away from us. And now here we are. Whether or not it's intentional, it's what things are like now, and it works.

Maybe I'm being too cynical here, I hope so.

These machinations aren't "nefarious", they're just business. I grew up with one of these people, propaganda guy in the military, did PR for energy companies. He published climate change denial material, and he didn't believe any of it, he just liked money and power, his employers hired him for that, and he had zero care whatsoever for human life. and I mean zero care, he had to maintain a fake persona to cover up his utter contempt for humanity just so people wouldn't throw him off a cliff. He was most certainly a blackhearted piece of shit, and if you could get inside his mind, it'd be like a Lovecraftian nightmare. This is some of the stuff you're up against.

― larry appleton

wait, you start off your paragraph saying that the machinations aren't "nefarious" and you end up describing the people who perpetrate them as a "Lovecraftian nightmare". i'm not sure i'm completely following you here, larry.

There is something to what Larry says -- money and power dictate. Money is a form of power, and when you lack that the alternative is organization. That's what unions are, that's what civil rights organizations are. Masses of people are a form of power too, when organized.

And yes, we have reached a somewhat dangerously atomized state, although the internet provides some opportunities for reorganization.

> wait, you start off your paragraph saying that the machinations aren't "nefarious" and you end up describing the people who perpetrate them as a "Lovecraftian nightmare". i'm not sure i'm completely following you here, larry.

What I meant with that is what's "nefarious" is subjective.

ftr record I still enthusiastically go to protests, because I find them therapeutic just like everyone else there does

I just don't hold any illusions about their tactical effectiveness

There is something to what Larry says -- money and power dictate. Money is a form of power, and when you lack that the alternative is organization. That's what unions are, that's what civil rights organizations are. Masses of people are a form of power too, when organized.

Yeah, this is where community and solidarity come in. But how can people be brought together when they're isolated and divided from each other, taught that everyone's competition or their enemy, and they get all of this information from outlets and leaders feeding them this bullshit?

How are these divisions bridged among people? How are people going to be "deprogrammed", so to speak? If not that, then maybe organize people who already share similar views into a well-coordinated and effective force of their own. What constitutes that I have no idea, but street protests wearing juggler's hats probably won't help.

The question here is: how do you become a danger?

the bullet or the ballot ennit

Yeah, the legitimacy of our country depends on representative government, and Trump and his crew are attacking *that* now openly, and it's been under attack for a long time now. Shit's deep.

Ok, but we still have it. How about getting people to turn out for non-presidential-year elections for starters.

I think you mean how about getting Democrats to turn out for midterm elections

Yeah, this is where community and solidarity come in. But how can people be brought together when they're isolated and divided from each other, taught that everyone's competition or their enemy, and they get all of this information from outlets and leaders feeding them this bullshit?

I already work on community events and beautification things with my block association, pay them my dues, support them with volunteer labor like working merch tables, doing kids' workshops, making food for gatherings, etc. I love my block/community, and working together on the fun stuff makes you strong and ready if you ever have to organize AGAINST something. If we ever have to mobilize, we can come together as ppl who know and trust each other, not as strangers.

That's true. So much of what we're saying here, a lot of people agree with it. There are a lot of people who are goodhearted, and civic minded, and think what's happening is total bullshit. It'd be great if there was some way to find them, recruit them, and organize them to action. Regular people who aren't politically active.

There are no media outlets or politicians who really talk about the points of view of these people (which include me), though. Bernie Sanders was the first I remember being anywhere even close to this, and he was shut out by the media, mocked on SNL, and is still getting trashed by the Democratic establishment. It has to come from somewhere.

xp

in orbit, what suburb/rural town is that? I'd love to see more of that happening.

xpost I think the regular people are becoming politically active. I personally have never borne witness to so many people who were previously content to be armchair liberals (myself included, sadly) and who are now like, no fuck this shit, it's time to do something.

^^^yeah this is my experience too. this has been something of a shock to the system. I think this is borne out in some ways by the anecdotal evidence of things like the ACLU currently having more money than they ever have in history.

That's promising. It'd be nice to organize people who agree with these things into a political/power force outside of the usual liberal/Democratic establishment, because those people have proven themselves to be very much against this. They don't seem to give much of a shit about what Trump's doing. If that's already happening, I'd like to know what it is.

People need to start talking to people again, I think... a campaign of outreach, human being to human being. But there has to be some kind-of banner, and system, and strategy to follow under. I don't know, I'm talking out of my ass here. I know the socialist parties are experiencing booms, but there's so much baggage with that stuff it makes me wary.

xp it's a little suburb called Brooklyn.

I don't know exactly what the solution to that is, but like...flyering, maybe? Activism fairs? Something along those lines? There are existing groups who want to build their numbers and newly-politicized people who are maybe not quite sure where to direct their energies. Maybe like a political Tinder where users swipe through until you find the local charity or political group that best suits them. It's that eternal problem of helping people bridge gaps to opportunities they aren't even aware of.

you mean something like this posted on this very thread

http://www.volunteermatch.org/

Yes, I mean like that very thing! (Sorry, I don't click on many links until I've left work because of our company's stupid internet restrictions.)

If that is what it sounds like it is, I'm gonna disseminate the hell out of it.

Bookmarked that site.

Maybe something that helps isn't even primarily political, but something like a social/service club movement, that adds community to where it doesn't exist. I live in the suburbs right now and it's depressing. Take what in orbit has in Brooklyn and try to replicate that elsewhere ... somehow. If people aren't spending time together talking to each other, then they're just going to get all of their information from TV and internet bullshit.

The USA is nowhere near organized enough or militant enough atm, but a general strike is an order of magnitude more effective than any boycotts or mass street demonstrations. This idea is worth filing away well to the back of one's mind for possible future reference.

ftr record I still enthusiastically go to protests, because I find them therapeutic just like everyone else there does

― Οὖτις

i don't really go to a lot because of my social phobia. i remember going to that jon stewart thing back in 2010, and that was pretty interesting to me because there's this thing where you get large enough groups of people together that things just start seeming really strange and kind of crazy. i don't know how to describe it, that sort of energy you get from a lot of people in one place, but it's pretty unstable and pretty scary.

on the other hand maybe that's just my social phobia. who knows?

Can we please not try to separate all this out from 2018? Whatever you think of the "Democrat/liberal establishment," I'm not aware of any other opposition party positioned to hand the GOP electoral defeats for local, state and national offices.

scale is a legitimate question. there are some forms of activity that will only work if they can be organized on a large scale. the implication i draw from that is that people should, as a matter of policy, seek to remain within existing law, for the simple expedient that it is extremely difficult to effectively organize mass-scale illegal activity. the kinds of things we read about in history books- wildcat strikes, the haymarket riot, the french saboteurs- my general impression is that these actions were not productive, were arguably even counterproductive.

sabotage and wildcat strikes would be great for the Trump admin

re: the democratic party- look, i think the tea party is a pretty good model to work from. if you want to start off nominally positioning yourself as "independent" and "grass-roots" like the tea party did, sure, but if the tea party could take over a party perceived as not sympathetic to their ideals, there is no reason whatsoever we couldn't do the same with the democratic party. the "moderate" democratic party is in just as much of a corner as all other "moderates" - they can't afford to spend much time denouncing anybody who opposes trump.

I'm all for primary'ing shitty Dems

The Tea Party movement had a small number of discrete items it cared about:
1. Get rid of that black president; barring that, stop him and his party at every turn - do not pass a budget, filibuster every appointment, filibuster every judicial nominee
2. Oh yeah that was pretty much it

They didn't give a shit about the stimulus package, they didn't give a shit about abortion rights, or even marriage equality - they hated that we elected a black man.

I'm all for emulating some of that single-mindedness but I thought our thing was that we care about issues.

We should just obstruct the bad things Trump does. If that ends up being everything so be it.

Yeah, every four years we get people who pointlessly prattle on about how no one represents them and we need a third party. I think these people just don't seem to get American electoral politics, let alone the situation we face.

You really only have two options other the Democratic Party as-is, the way I see it:
1) Tea-party style insurgency (berniecrats)
2) Third party that coalitions with the democrats in most elections (working families).

I think both are good models for progressive electoral politics. I also think we can't expect a progressive in every congressional district overnight.

But it's really, really fucking important for progressives to start caring more about local and state and off-year elections.

They didn't give a shit about the stimulus package, they didn't give a shit about abortion rights, or even marriage equality - they hated that we elected a black man.

I'm all for emulating some of that single-mindedness but I thought our thing was that we care about issues.

― El Tomboto, Thursday, December 8, 2016 5:55 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think the current GOP congressional agenda makes clear that this is patently not true -- they have a radically anti-deficit and pro-privatization agenda that they're frothing to enact. They don't even care if it's popular! They're legit ideologues.

I mean the voters, dude. I don't mean the people they elected. Obviously the post-New Deal GOP has always had at least a couple of specific policy ideas, obliterating the New Deal being the main one, but that's not what the Tea Party used for fuel.

the Democratic Party as-is

I'm not sure what this is right now, either.

I mean the Democratic Party platform in 2016 won 2.6 million more votes, we should probably start by stealing from that, don't you think

I mean the Democratic Party platform in 2016 won 2.6 million more votes, we should probably start by stealing from that, don't you think

― El Tomboto, Thursday, December 8, 2016 3:08 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if we were in an alternative universe were the electoral college didn't exist.

they have a radically anti-deficit

lol wut the GOP loves deficits they are gonna run up insane deficits just like they always do

Yeah i feel like these people are literally robber barons looking to suck as much wealth out of the economy as they can and leave it a hollow shell with no civic institutions. At least thats the feeling behind the people who bankrolled this movement

that is their stated goal, it isn't a mystery

Paul ryan and ted cruz and them like to say they are fans of "fiscal responsibility"

A lot of republican voters definitely feel like unleashing the markets is a sober step toward a more prosperous, sustainable future and not a prescription for national and ecological suicide

It is the democrats constant shame that they are unable to effectively point out this transparent con to the voters