Social Activism in the Age of Trump: What To Do and What We Are Doing

hey guys larry's here

larry, can you fuck off to the Mourning thread, at least

seriously

xxp

Damn straight, man alive. I've had a successful track record doing public interest work, with real people's lives made better against injustice, and it wasn't fun, it sucked. Nerve wracking and basically just a fight against depressing bullshit. Nothing toe-curling and luxurious about it, no personal therapeutic value, or glorious, it was draining and involved personal sacrifice.

If you're doing it for yourself, for therapy, for self-expression then what we'll get is another Occupy Wall Street. Whatever, don't listen to me, make the same mistakes over and over again, I don't care, I'm not even playing this game anymore.

you seem to have ... some issues

I regret that I have but one FP to give for my message board

Yeah, you're right. What I'm saying here is this whole self-growth, self-fulfillment crap is the problem. Same deal with Occupy Wall Street, it was about self-expression more than self-sacrifice for the public good. F that noise. Sounds like those guys were doing good work, but this mindset takes me back to all the other ineffectual movements of the recent past.

Well, I bring up the therapeutic value because it has a beneficial side-effect to actually meeting and doing something. i wanna throttle some commentators Bloom County-style just for the continued despair and this self-pitying victimization fetish. Yeah everybody had a shock or some trauma to some level, but continually to fixate on it offers no material benefit aside from justifying just sitting there.

And since there are countless of column inches needing to filled and 800-word blog posted filed by lunchtime, you have this horde of really comfortable yakking types just spewing out their fevered handwringing impulses because everybody else is doing it.

Of course, Horizontal structures/consensus/Occupy-style organizing have their own issues(in legion), but that's a different subject. What I'm talking about has only the high-visibility actions as only a fraction of what needs to be done, but it's high-viz which means cameras are there which we means we most easily remember only the really vivid public display aspects of this. We weren't there ourselves.

faraday phone

Correction: Faraday bag, rather.

Like this, maybe:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01BY9H5H6/

Yeah, alright. The left/liberals have this problem with politics being about self-fulfillment and self-expression. "Wasn't that protest so much fun?!? We had hoola hoopers and bubble machines. It was great! Check out these costumes we wore!" I remember overhearing that around Occupy Wall Street.

So when I hear "therapeutic", I guess I'm hearing that. It's a mindset that's failed a thousand times before, and will fail a thousand times hereafter. This stuff should be putting a knot in your stomach, I don't see how it could be therapeutic at all.

larry has now clearly established for us that he has an outsized sense of his own superiority and he feels entitled to it. is that you, gabneb?

I have an outsized sense of seeing my ideas work in the real world.

We should all hasten to put our stomachs in knots, based on your experience, then?

It's about being prepared for hard, difficult work, not the release of personal tension. If your mind is set to self-fulfillment, therapeutic value, self-expression, then people will bail the minute things get difficult. If you prime people with a mind set of self-sacrifice for the greater good, people will be more willing to go further.

rephrase it two more times larry I don't think people understood what you were getting at

Eh, whatever, this the last time I'm going to post in this thread.

http://www.nataliedee.com/012506/maracas.jpg

Yeah, alright. The left/liberals have this problem with politics being about self-fulfillment and self-expression. "Wasn't that protest so much fun?!? We had hoola hoopers and bubble machines. It was great! Check out these costumes we wore!" I remember overhearing that around Occupy Wall Street.

― larry appleton, Monday, December 19, 2016 4:56 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i remember hearing "the cops beat up my friend and then arrested them and also i've been pissing in a mcdonalds bathroom twice a day for two weeks straight"

xps

Different approaches work for different people. If you are going to rely only upon those for whom the prospect of endless hard work and self-sacrifice is attractive, then you will find yourself with a very solid core of highly dedicated people, surrounded by a very large vacancy that was once occupied by somewhat less dedicated people who were only looking to help out.

street protests *are* basically therapy for their participants (as I've said here before), but they are not really politically effective action. However, therapy is valuable insofar as demoralized and atomized communities are not capable of more effective action. So it's not an either/or thing. So the scenario kind of goes: 1) whining on internet message board/facebook/blog/twitter, 2) showing up in person at an event or organizing meeting, to 3) executing effective action (getting people to vote, training, donating money, putting in hours doing grunt work, etc.)

there are lots of critiques of occupy, but accusing essentially the most sustained protest in the u.s. of the past decade at least of being for dilettantes who bailed when things got difficult (they were sleeping on concrete for months ffs) seems like... not a good one?

the Left should buck up and get into lobbying imo

My point in bringing up the emotional value was mainly as a response to the suicidally depressive tone affected by commentators and people who share their posts maybe a little too much. As happens on one's timeline and just maybe in a thread or two on here.

The great thing about protests is that you meet a lot of people, and you can organize stuff like teach-ins, and that stuff is really important for activists. I don't know if I could do things that I do without the education I received from study groups and teach-ins, organizing speaking events, etc.

I think a lot of people forget or are just unaware that Occupy birthed a historically amazing and innovate major disaster relief effort that outdid organizations like the Red Cross

But I guess it was a total failure because it didn't figure out how to depose Wall Street, lol massive fail, activists.

Also, veterans of the Women's Movement of the sixties and seventies might have a problem with the denigration of actions as "therapeutic" or "feel good" as if that is bad. The opposition is abusive, domineering. It's important to oppose those values by selling a vision of a different way to live. I mean, we went through all of this stuff with Vietnam. The values have to change, or we'll keep getting Trumps. We might even get something worse than Trump. People have to change, or we'll continue to have a violent, abusive culture putting these crap leaders in power. This didn't happen overnight.

Same deal with Occupy Wall Street, it was about self-expression more than self-sacrifice for the public good

lol why do u think this? are you a sentient Atlantic article?

also not sure what "self-sacrifice" has to do with anything? what do you think freedom of expression is about, or do you think you are supposed to sacrifice yourself before you get to express yourself.

Occupy is an easy target cos it's the only high-profile leftist protest anyone remember from the past 16 years. and in spite of being amorphous/goalless/leaderless helped create a world where a socialist got massive mainstream support.

the denigration of actions as "therapeutic" or "feel good" as if that is bad

but the second you use hoola hoopers all your points about income inequality are invalidated. /s

I'm wondering how entrenched this case is to North Florida's attitude on BLM, but check out the lone comment (and date of comment)

http://notinmyname.livejournal.com/14296.html

I think a lot of people forget or are just unaware that Occupy birthed a historically amazing and innovate major disaster relief effort that outdid organizations like the Red Cross

The opposition is abusive, domineering. It's important to oppose those values by selling a vision of a different way to live.

YO.

larry appleton, your posts itt have been more cynical and depressing than most of what I've read in the Mourning thread. Rein it in or split. Seriously.

I'm going to start volunteering with a local at-risk educational initiative once the new school semester starts. I'd like to tutor but I'll do it whatever they need me to do. It seems like a really great place. I don't realistically know how much more action I have in me at the moment, but being a positive force in the community feels like a good start.

In other BLM news, the Unitarian Universalist Church way out in Idaho Falls, ID, marched in the sub-freezing cold to show support this weekend.

http://www.localnews8.com/news/local-church-holds-black-lives-matter-march/221780032

kingfish on fire this afternoon, great points expressed very well.

i'm in deep blue western washington so ymmv but the organizing around the bernie campaign has morphed into an ongoing progressive network here that just took over the chairmanships of our local legislative district, and are also coordinating protests to keep a public restroom open 24hrs for the houseless here to use. lots of ordinary folks of all ages and plenty of small business owners are involved, it's a great thing to be a part of and is going a long way towards keeping me sane

I'll clarify what I'm talking about here, cuz I'm sure you all would love to hear it. What I'm just pointing out is the language here used is coming from a self-focused angle. "restoring my sanity" "therapeutic" "stress-relieving", it's always focused on the self, "how am I...". But that's never cut it with trying to help other people in the past. The last progressive movement made some gains after a lot of people stood up for each other and were willing to take bullets to the gut and get their skulls cracked open for themselves, their families, their neighbors, and for future generations. Either that or you appeal to the selfishness of the decision makers, and that also takes a lot of guts and strategy.

I doubt they were doing it for stress relief. "This organizational meeting was the perfect thing for my mental health, I feel so relieved." It's like, you're all about to get into a giant knife fight with people way more powerful and way more vicious than you, and I just think it's funny to consider it in these very pampered, very self-focused terms, when you're staring down some heavy shit with some very brutal and cunning people behind it who like their power, would like to keep it, and won't give it up unless you got something good to give them. You got millions of bucks over here?

The left has lost 100% completely and utterly. Totally decimated. Complete failure. Flushed down the toilet. Pack up the tents, it's over, folks. So that doesn't inspire some soul searching? Of course not, because that would go against the therapeutic value of all this, too stressful, too uncomfortable. Whatever, I'm sitting this shit out, I've seen how the sausage is made, and I'm good.

Yes, please do that, thanks. We'll let you know how your strawmen fare with their stress relief.

Those strawmen were direct quotes from people in this thread. I just don't think a lot of contemporary Americans even know the concept of how to sacrifice and make personal risks to help others for no gain of their own. It's like a foreign concept in this country. Netflix and the comfy chair, activism as a mental health day. I'd love it if people kept proving me wrong.

how are you helping

flag posting larry appleton is therapeutic

I grew up helping people. I've stood up to groups of bullies harassing kids, like one girl whose father had just died and they were tormenting her about it. I stood up to that shit at risk of getting the shit beaten out of me, and yes, I've gotten the crap kicked out of me for standing up for people.

I've sacrificed jobs and the strength of my career disobeying orders from supervisors to help people who were going to be sent to utter hell for no damn good reason, or standing up for people who were getting unfairly assaulted.

Story of my life is doing things like this. I've helped real people and I've gotten punched, beaten, fired, demoted, etc., for it. But it was worth it because I know how much life can suck, and I know what it's like when cowardly, soft-handed, pampered little shits are more concerned with their comfort than doing what needs to be done to help others.

So that's where some of my cynicism comes from, and I get those vibes when I hear these things talked about in such terms like "oh it was such a comfort for me to ..." blah blah blah. I know what that shit is, and I know it's no good.

Flag away, flag away. Whatever.

Eh, whatever, this the last time I'm going to post in this thread.

― larry appleton, Monday, December 19, 2016 4:06 PM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, sorry for derailing the circle jerk here. Definitely doesn't prove my point.

i get the sense you dont really like people, though

words are wind

I grew up helping people. I've stood up to groups of bullies harassing kids, like one girl whose father had just died and they were tormenting her about it. I stood up to that shit at risk of getting the shit beaten out of me, and yes, I've gotten the crap kicked out of me for standing up for people.

I've sacrificed jobs and the strength of my career disobeying orders from supervisors to help people who were going to be sent to utter hell for no damn good reason, or standing up for people who were getting unfairly assaulted.

Story of my life is doing things like this. I've helped real people and I've gotten punched, beaten, fired, demoted, etc., for it. But it was worth it because I know how much life can suck, and I know what it's like when cowardly, soft-handed, pampered little shits are more concerned with their comfort than doing what needs to be done to help others.

So that's where some of my cynicism comes from, and I get those vibes when I hear these things talked about in such terms like "oh it was such a comfort for me to ..." blah blah blah. I know what that shit is, and I know it's no good.

― larry appleton, Monday, December 19, 2016 9:35 PM (twenty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what is the point of this patronizing bullshit

like you're the only person who has ever sacrificed for someone else

this election is really bringing the worst out of everyone

yeah

Nah, it's bringing plenty of good out in plenty of people, as evidenced throughout this thread and in so much of the stuff I see people doing to counter the worst. But, while I'm not mad at larry for feeling what he's feeling or saying what he's saying, that is why I'm mad at him for constantly dragging those things into a space where we're huddled around a minute flicker of hope.

It's bringing out the douchemax in about 3 or 4 people as far as I can tell. Everyone else is getting a lot more interested in the universe beyond voting and that should be terrifying to status quo guardians; which probably explains mr. appleton's position more than any allegations of nihilism