Eh, whatever, this the last time I'm going to post in this thread.
― larry appleton, Monday, December 19, 2016 4:06 PM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 03:37 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, sorry for derailing the circle jerk here. Definitely doesn't prove my point.
― larry appleton, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 03:38 (seven years ago) link
i get the sense you dont really like people, though
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 03:39 (seven years ago) link
words are wind
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 03:41 (seven years ago) link
I grew up helping people. I've stood up to groups of bullies harassing kids, like one girl whose father had just died and they were tormenting her about it. I stood up to that shit at risk of getting the shit beaten out of me, and yes, I've gotten the crap kicked out of me for standing up for people.I've sacrificed jobs and the strength of my career disobeying orders from supervisors to help people who were going to be sent to utter hell for no damn good reason, or standing up for people who were getting unfairly assaulted.Story of my life is doing things like this. I've helped real people and I've gotten punched, beaten, fired, demoted, etc., for it. But it was worth it because I know how much life can suck, and I know what it's like when cowardly, soft-handed, pampered little shits are more concerned with their comfort than doing what needs to be done to help others.So that's where some of my cynicism comes from, and I get those vibes when I hear these things talked about in such terms like "oh it was such a comfort for me to ..." blah blah blah. I know what that shit is, and I know it's no good.― larry appleton, Monday, December 19, 2016 9:35 PM (twenty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I've sacrificed jobs and the strength of my career disobeying orders from supervisors to help people who were going to be sent to utter hell for no damn good reason, or standing up for people who were getting unfairly assaulted.
Story of my life is doing things like this. I've helped real people and I've gotten punched, beaten, fired, demoted, etc., for it. But it was worth it because I know how much life can suck, and I know what it's like when cowardly, soft-handed, pampered little shits are more concerned with their comfort than doing what needs to be done to help others.
So that's where some of my cynicism comes from, and I get those vibes when I hear these things talked about in such terms like "oh it was such a comfort for me to ..." blah blah blah. I know what that shit is, and I know it's no good.
― larry appleton, Monday, December 19, 2016 9:35 PM (twenty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
what is the point of this patronizing bullshit
― geometry-stabilized craft (art), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 03:57 (seven years ago) link
like you're the only person who has ever sacrificed for someone else
― geometry-stabilized craft (art), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 03:58 (seven years ago) link
this election is really bringing the worst out of everyone
yeah
― A big shout out goes to the lamb chops, thos lamb chops (ulysses), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 04:06 (seven years ago) link
Nah, it's bringing plenty of good out in plenty of people, as evidenced throughout this thread and in so much of the stuff I see people doing to counter the worst. But, while I'm not mad at larry for feeling what he's feeling or saying what he's saying, that is why I'm mad at him for constantly dragging those things into a space where we're huddled around a minute flicker of hope.
― Froyo On My Slacks (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 04:13 (seven years ago) link
It's bringing out the douchemax in about 3 or 4 people as far as I can tell. Everyone else is getting a lot more interested in the universe beyond voting and that should be terrifying to status quo guardians; which probably explains mr. appleton's position more than any allegations of nihilism
― a Warren Beatty film about Earth (El Tomboto), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 04:42 (seven years ago) link
I don't have to make another explainer post about what I meant, right? I mean, most of you got what I was aiming at?
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 07:29 (seven years ago) link
"Sacrificing for someone else"...where I come from, people are working-class, they're not privileged white college kids from expensive universities. They are sacrificing FOR THEMSELVES. That's what puts me off this "altruism" bullshit. A lot of us are trying to save our own asses, trying to save our communities from neglect and deterioration that will certainly get worse under Trump. I don't have the time or resources to be "altruistic", I stopped going to church for a reason, don't need another controlling ideology in my life. There is plenty of shit where I live that needs doing and I get involved in it because my quality of life will improve.
― Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 12:41 (seven years ago) link
The left has lost 100% completely and utterly. Totally decimated. Complete failure. Flushed down the toilet. Pack up the tents, it's over, folks. So that doesn't inspire some soul searching? Of course not, because that would go against the therapeutic value of all this, too stressful, too uncomfortable. Whatever, I'm sitting this shit out, I've seen how the sausage is made, and I'm good.
― larry appleton
larry, you're doing a pretty terrible job at "get the hell out of the way". this is the way, and you're standing there.
because christ on a crutch, performative defeatism is even more obnoxious than being performatively woke.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 13:16 (seven years ago) link
where I come from, people are working-class, they're not privileged white college kids from expensive universities. They are sacrificing FOR THEMSELVES.
^this otmfm
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 18:25 (seven years ago) link
There is plenty of shit where I live that needs doing and I get involved in it because my quality of life will improve.
THE ABSOLUTE BASIC BUILDING BLOCK OF COMMUNITY ORGANIZING, RIGHT HERE. When people say "What will I get out of this?" the answer for frontline communities is "The quality or circumstances of my daily life will improve."
― If authoritarianism is Romania's ironing board, then (in orbit), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 18:28 (seven years ago) link
larry lied, social activism threads died
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 18:42 (seven years ago) link
TIL about the Truman Project.
https://truman.runforoffice.org/
http://trumanproject.org/home/
― a Warren Beatty film about Earth (El Tomboto), Thursday, 22 December 2016 04:20 (seven years ago) link
wait appleton isnt losted
― loudmouth darraghmac ween (darraghmac), Thursday, 22 December 2016 09:23 (seven years ago) link
hiya! I haven't been following this thread in detail but I know there are some good organisers and activists here - some British leftist journalist friends of mine are going to the US in January and looking to find out about and talk to people. If you are or you know anything important going on in NYC, Washington DC, Raleigh or Baltimore hit me up?
― lex pretend, Thursday, 22 December 2016 10:36 (seven years ago) link
hmm pretty sure something's happening in DC in January but I just can't remember what it is
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 December 2016 17:02 (seven years ago) link
that is, presumably, why they're going
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Thursday, 22 December 2016 17:06 (seven years ago) link
That seems kind of broad. What kinds of things? Protests? Meetings? I mean the resurgence of interest in DSA seems like maybe an interesting story.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Thursday, 22 December 2016 17:07 (seven years ago) link
as someone who started following/gave to DSA recently i've also started digging around various lefty forums and my god i'd sorta forgotten just how easily splintered we are over ideological purity
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Thursday, 22 December 2016 17:09 (seven years ago) link
Has this been posted?
https://medium.com/@kaarenhaldeman/ten-pro-tips-on-how-to-survive-the-next-presidency-from-the-people-of-north-carolina-f6bb51c70624#.ydnniwrzd
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 22 December 2016 17:10 (seven years ago) link
just how easily splintered we are over ideological purity
Yeah, there are a lot of bad habits still around and evolving past them will be painful and stupid
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Thursday, 22 December 2016 17:14 (seven years ago) link
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Thursday, December 22, 2016 5:07 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
grassroots organisations, movements, activist campaigns, seeds of protest. that sort of thing
― lex pretend, Thursday, 22 December 2016 19:37 (seven years ago) link
"Purity" is a trigger word for me *ha-ha* It seems to me it's often employed when there are real, substantive differences at issue.
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 December 2016 19:41 (seven years ago) link
An acquaintance of mine wanted to find a resistance group to work with. They had trouble not over some idealized notion of radical purity but indeed real, substantive differences. Like: I believe Israel has serious moral problems and needs to fix itself; they believe Israel is a pariah, as oppressive as South Africa, and an artificial construct and that shouldn't even be on the map anyway. Later, Someone brought in a American flag that had QUEER written across it in glitter. Reportedly some were upset by the use of the flag because it stands for racism, slavery, and colonialism. There were some people who believed it was okay to reappropriate the symbol, take it back, and apply it to good purposes; others felt too oppressed by the flag's bloody history. I'm paraphrasing here for privacy but that's the gist of it.
All I can say is that I hope there are equally vociferous differences dividing the right.
― troops in djibouti (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 22 December 2016 20:09 (seven years ago) link
There were some people who believed it was okay to reappropriate the symbol, take it back, and apply it to good purposes; others felt too oppressed by the flag's bloody history
it's not often the flag really does stand so neatly for the country
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 22 December 2016 20:15 (seven years ago) link
https://www.emptywheel.net/2016/12/21/draintheswamp-and-the-structure-of-power/
― The beaver is not the bad guy (El Tomboto), Tuesday, 27 December 2016 13:17 (seven years ago) link
Chicago Review of Books says it will not cover any Simon & Schuster books in 2017 as a result of the Yiannopolous book deal:
https://twitter.com/bookschicago/status/814544045825474561
― Lauren Schumer Donor (Phil D.), Friday, 30 December 2016 14:09 (seven years ago) link
really? of all the shits who have gotten published? drama queens.
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 30 December 2016 14:17 (seven years ago) link
I have been hearing radio ads on a Baltimore rap/r'n'b station for this upcoming Al Sharpton sponsored Jan. 14th march in DC, but little to no mention elsewhere (especially compared to the attention the women's march the following weekend). Here's one article about it:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2016/12/15/rev-al-sharpton-to-host-rally-ahead-of-inauguration-there-must-be-an-organized-resistance-movement/?utm_term=.1af659e91d7b
Rev. Al Sharpton will bring together prominent black activist groups for a rally ahead of Inauguration Day, setting the stage for what he says will be a full-force resistance from him and other black leaders during the presidency of Donald J. Trump.
The “We Shall Not be Moved” rally on Jan. 14 in Washington will focus on voting rights, criminal justice, healthcare and economic justice. Sharpton’s group, National Action Network, along with the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, National Urban League and Black Women’s Roundtable are hosting the event on the National Mall.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 30 December 2016 16:25 (seven years ago) link
Bizarre that anybody still trusts/listens to sharpton but sure u go bro
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 31 December 2016 02:15 (seven years ago) link
whatever you do, keep it outside the caca Democratic Party
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 31 December 2016 03:25 (seven years ago) link
yes, teaming up with the KKK and the FSB is a much better option for real change. That's what you're doing, right Doctor?
― The beaver is not the bad guy (El Tomboto), Saturday, 31 December 2016 03:32 (seven years ago) link
The real resistance: sniping from the sidelines at people who give a shit, while constantly claiming that you actually care about stuff
― The beaver is not the bad guy (El Tomboto), Saturday, 31 December 2016 03:34 (seven years ago) link
oh i give a shit
it's too bad it doesnt matter
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 31 December 2016 03:46 (seven years ago) link
teaming up with the KKK
you're really an asshole, as ppl who barely know you are fully aware
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 31 December 2016 03:49 (seven years ago) link
Pot kettle! I have been able to string a coherent paragraph together from time to time, something that's consistently beyond your abilities
― The beaver is not the bad guy (El Tomboto), Saturday, 31 December 2016 03:52 (seven years ago) link
hey i know my limits
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 31 December 2016 03:53 (seven years ago) link
I like this bit on the problems with consensus decision-making on anything larger than a small group:
http://berkeleyjournal.org/2015/05/the-theology-of-consensus/
Which I think is going to be increasingly relevant as you get more and more people getting active whose last experience with any of this was Occupy, and so still have the unhelpful habits in place.
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 18:59 (seven years ago) link
on the other hand some people whose last experience with any of this with occupy might now be allergic to consensus.
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 3 January 2017 19:01 (seven years ago) link
the process is v useful in places i think but you don't forget spending 5+ rainy hours failing to come to a decision on whether to a) allow traffic thru the major artery separating yr two occupied park blocks or b) take the police charge in the morning
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 3 January 2017 19:04 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, which gets mentioned in the piece. It's like an even worse version of Wilde's attributed quote of "socialism takes too many evenings."
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 19:14 (seven years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Saturday, December 31, 2016 2:15 AM (three days ago
I don't trust him but he has an audience. My point is Sharpton is reaching out via ads on Baltimore rap/r'n'b radio to an audience with a sizable amount of Black Americans for his upcoming rally on the 14th, while the Women's March on the 21st isn't doing as much to reach beyond its white women led leadership.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 3 January 2017 19:15 (seven years ago) link
Should we have a thread for Chapo Trap House and the dirtbag left
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 19:16 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, the Portland camp had that weird aspect, didn't it, not just one park but trying to maintain the two.
And that stupid rain.
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 19:19 (seven years ago) link
But it also consistently empowered cranks, malcontents, and even provocateurs to lay claim to a group’s attention and gum up the works, even when groups adopted modifications to strict consensus that allowed super-majorities to override blocks.
Consensus can easily be derailed by those acting in bad faith. But it’s also a process that is ill-equipped to deal with disagreements that arise from competing interests rather than simple differences of opinion.
This has been my experience too. I've been in meetings/strategy sessions where someone with dubious motivations can make everything about themselves and there's no rigor, no structure to tell them to have a seat. Esp if that person is a member of an already marginalized group, it's super dicey.
― If authoritarianism is Romania's ironing board, then (in orbit), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 19:20 (seven years ago) link
Might as well, seeing as how it's going to pop up in the other threads increasingly
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Tuesday, 3 January 2017 19:20 (seven years ago) link