Rolling Brexit Links/UK politics in the neo-Weimar era

Lammy's always struck me as being somewhat of a dimwit tbh.

I don't like Diane Abbott either, just to lay my cards on the table.

I like Abbott, voted for her in 2010, wld vote her again now if given the chance. she's definitely much better on TV than Corbyn, I think she would do better than him in appealing to "apolitical" people/ ppl who are not dyed-in-the-wool beardy guardian reading lefties (which is most ppl, obv) even taking into account her status as a hate figure for racists and misogynists, chances of her becoming leader probably zero though, she seems even less popular in the PLP than Corbyn

We're gonna need a bigger table.

Lammy went on to become the first black Briton to study at Harvard University when he won a place to study an LL.M. at Harvard Law School.

only 52% of voters voted for leave. They weren't voting for hard brexit. Hard brexit and leaving the single market was not what was asked.

So why shouldnt pro-euro parties join up?

I have to say im no fan of abbott either

tho i do end up defending her all the time against racists who claim they arent

They would be asking people to vote for them on the basis of ignoring a democratic vote, it's a bit Catch-22

I'm sympathetic to that argument but I assume electability isn't something you're concerned with in that case?

I don't know if this is aimed at me, but I'm not convinced that Brexit is or shall be a very "electable" stance for much longer

oh and i meant anti-brexit coalition way upthread obviously

Electability as a concept has been given a bit of a kicking over the last few months, just saying like.

I think Abbott would actually make an impact in terms of not being "an average politician"/someone different who will actaully shake things up or whatever, which is what a lot of Corbyn's supporters said he would do, but hasn't afaict? I get the impression that a lot of ppl don't really see Corbyn as radically different to previous Labour leaders, just more useless and with some eccentric positions they don't like.

I don't know if this is aimed at me, but I'm not convinced that Brexit is or shall be a very "electable" stance for much longer

This is the thing, but it's too much to ask the Labour Party to focus on fighting the next election rather than the last.

I don't know if this is aimed at me, but I'm not convinced that Brexit is or shall be a very "electable" stance for much longer

you're a lot more optimistic about how much racism/jingoism/nativism/plain stupidity is out there then. I mean, look at the Times/Mail headlines. We usually look at it from the perspective of "these evil tabloids brainwashing the masses" but those sentiments obviously also strike a pre-existing chord.

They're not going to be very tolerant of an economic collapse either.

That depends on how it will be spun. Stick-in-mud Remainers and Trump will be blamed before Tories (even if May herself doesn't last longer than Cameron).

I don't know if this was already linked to on this thread, but re: Abbott, this interview with her published in the NS last week is very good: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/01/having-last-laugh

I don't think you're wrong in your pessimism Alex, but *only 52% of those who voted actually went for Brexit, and who knows how many of them still feel that way, polls (which didn't do a great job of testing a nation's temperature throughout 2016) notwithstanding. And I do believe that its the malign papers that are driving this - the nation might have a tendency to nativism, etc, but I also think it can be encouraged in the opposite direction. I don't know ho to overcome those tabloids, but I think it's important to try, or to at least not just resign in the face of the Murdoch/Dacre machine.

I also kind of find endless pessimism in the face of this situation to be defeatist and self-perpetuating in of itself. I don't think we'll find a solution to it without believing that there's a solution to be found.

You could hardly get a more boilerplate run-of-the-mill politician than Theresa May. so much for novelty.

Her biggest fans e.g. Dacre see her as Classic Conservative and that'll more than do them for a few years.

She is a woman, I'll give her that. Corbyn fails there again.

Stick-in-mud Remainers don't have any actual power right now though, so I don't know how that could be the case. Unless you count the stick-in-mud remainders relocating their businesses to the continent.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/19/seumas-milne-quits-guardian-for-permanent-labour-position

First task, get shot of that wanker.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/19/corbyn-to-impose-three-line-whip-on-labour-mps-to-trigger-article-50?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

Jesus @ this discussion today. Stevie can you have a look at this thread: how to find a good therapist

Can you find yourself a good therapist please? I mean we all have our problems but surely no one keeps going back to the same nonsense each and every single time. Brexit is terrible, yes, but its happening.

The button is going to be pushed - and Europe is falling apart in any case - and now the fight is in the how it happens.

There are conflicting reports on what Corbyn/Labour are going to do - there was a impose vs suggestion. Its a coms issue as much as his enemies gladly muddying the waters. From what I can tell this is playing the long game badly. Its awful if that turns out to be Labour's position but after an hour or two my twitter TL has calmed down.

If it's a comms issue the wtf is Milne doing?

LOL those two links are ined up perfectly.

Yeah, I'm out of this thread, guys. Keep being a cunt, xyzzzz.

Fucking Glover in the Mail and that Bertram in the Telegraph getting ready to heap blame for failure on Remainers for not accepting and moving on.

I get that people are tired of the whole thing now and still looking for an out seems like denial rather than pragmatism but at the same time, if the vote went the other way we really still would be hearing about it from the losers. Just like you still hear from Yes voters in Scotland.

Losing doesn't mean you shut up now and forever more; it never has. You just make your case better.

Perhaps Remainers should start talking about how and when we'll rejoin the EU, chastened and without our special exemptions.

I totally agree - remake the case. But fantasies of side-stepping the referendum are empty fantasies, let them go

loooool

leader of tory surrey county council on ch4 news the now - they're having a referendum to raise council tax by 15%. philip hammond mp jeremy hunt mp chris grayling mp crispin blunt mp have their constituencies in surrey. need to raise council tax says this bloke need to plug gap in adult social care and children's services he says we've made hundreds of millions of pounds of savings since 2010 and we're on track to meet targets for 2020 but we must plug the gap. cathy newman asks what do they tell you from central government there's no money he says do you believe them she says he says central government always manages to find money for things aren't you glad someone's standing up and telling the truth he says telling it how it really is again she says do you believe there's no money and he says I think we should look at foreign aid

I'm a big believer in foreign aid

I've done a lot of work with the rotary club (I believe he said)

but we have to ask

what outcomes are we getting for that money

shouldn't we think about whether we need to spend it here instead

Honestly I think there's nothing the Tories would like better than to redistribute cash from Rwanda to Surrey but if he thinks they aren't deliberately squeezing local government then he profoundly misunderstands his own party. Or at least the Cameron-Osborne version of it.

I'm sure he'd settle for redistributing cash from areas with Labour councils.

Though I'm sure that's already happening.

sure it's not british politics, but i think british commentariat connoisseurs will get the most pleasure out of this - https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/822102387389251584

bar the tedious rhetoric in there I still think the basic point is right: the way the game works now, no political good can come out of trying to overturn or ignore the referendum result.

nationwide agreed but my area voted strongly Remain and I will be fucking disgusted if when its MPs make not even the smallest sound against this full-on hard Brexit

Remain-voting areas have fewer seats per voter so not enough to overturn any results but please make some show of representing your constituents

1) cameron presses self-destruct button to shore up conversative votes from those who might otherwise vote ukip
2) may disingenously cheerleads for destruction in order to stay in power
3) ???
4) profit

working out nicely for DCam and no doubt will for May as well - destroy country, make millions in the currency of your choice on the after-dinner circuit to stash into off-shore bank accounts

blaming social progress is the terrifying rung that lurks below blaming foreigners, and it'll be really thrilling when the new right in the uk resort to it properly

Yeah, I'm out of this thread, guys. Keep being a cunt, xyzzzz.

― Dysphagia Nutrition Solutions (stevie), Thursday, 19 January 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Bye Stevie, get well soon.

Hodges a desperate sad little batshit orc as always.

Some more soft left cunt behaviour: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/19/lives-torn-apart-assets-labour-privatisation-north-london-haringey?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The button is going to be pushed - and Europe is falling apart in any case - and now the fight is in the how it happens.

"I'm sure he'd settle for redistributing cash from areas with Labour councils."

My local council is a just about a Labour controlled one (just 1 seat short of a majority) and is facing an £80 million deficit in it's funding over the next 3 years, as the 8th lowest funded and 2nd most skint in terms of reserve funds - even after factoring in LA incompetence + waste we still have obv really got an extra shittier austerity deal than many others. Without checking I'd safely say there will be no Oxfordshire/Surrey boroughs below us on the underfunded list.

The aim of Brexit talks will be to show that the consequences will be severe for any country looking to drop out of the club, they aren't going to concede shit to May, let alone Liam Fox or Boris Johnson.

it's going to have to be michael gove

Ha!

Lives torn apart and assets lost: this is what a Labour privatisation would mean

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/19/lives-torn-apart-assets-labour-privatisation-north-london-haringey

aditya good and angry again on "zombie blairism" in local gov (shame the guardian made him look like he thinks edmonton where he grew up is a borough)

I'm all for London being fenced off from the rest of the country tbh