Rolling Brexit Links/UK politics in the neo-Weimar era

a munchy box of painful emotions

"Labour respects the result of the referendum and the will of the British people and will not frustrate the process for invoking article 50.

However, Labour will seek to amend the article 50 bill to prevent the Conservatives using Brexit to turn Britain into a bargain basement tax haven off the coast of Europe.

Labour will seek to build in the principles of full, tariff-free access to the single market and maintenance of workers’ rights and social and environmental protections.

Labour is demanding a plan from the government to ensure it is accountable to parliament throughout the negotiations and a meaningful vote to ensure the final deal is given parliamentary approval."

This is Corbyn's spokesperson rather than Corbyn himself but it really is just toothless, empty brand positioning. If they actually believed in holding the government accountable they'd vote against it. It's amazing how they just repeat the mistakes of their predecessors. You just expect better.

"Labour is demanding a plan from the government"

strong stuff

i'd be fascinated to hear what leverage they think they have to force the government to produce a plan, given that they've conceded that they'll allow article 50 to go ahead

this 'bargain basement tax haven' stuff is really dire: clunkily-phrased and guaranteed to appeal to no-one but diehard tax policy wonks. fucking tragic that it seems to be the best they can do to paint a picture of post-brexit britain

what would that party stand for? free trade and legitimate concerns? bracket Corbyn out of the equation and where is the cadre of non-Trots offering voters a new deal?

Oh absolutely, it wouldn't be worth a toss, Corbyn going would not improve matters. Just marvelling at the circular firing squad.

If labour has already conceded on not stopping the government's trigger of article 50, how on earth is it going to have any leverage for its amendments?

our existing major parties are (ought to be) fractured beyond repair. I still think at some point there will be a major restructuring, but it seems likely that the consequences of Brexit (and I still maintain Brexit is not the only game in town, and am still amused by the wailing and gnashing of teeth from nice people who have just not been that fazed by 40 years of Thatcherism and Post-Thatcherism, cheers guys, nice to have your concern and solidarity along the way) will have to become starker and more horrible before the parties realign.

and in terms of party realignment/betrayal of the electorate as a whole, the free trade Tories seem to me more culpable in many ways, their party is in power after all, and their silence right now is outright cowardice.

hey d00d we can trade with the whole world

"cheers guys, nice to have your concern and solidarity along the way"

I get the feeling a lot of seemingly good folk who wouldn't openly admit to be pro-austerity would happily take further austerity if it meant this unwholesome Brexit thing could be somehow made to disappear.

my sarcastic point entirely, a lot of Remainers' core interests aren't really aligned with mine

Ultimately I don't really believe that May and Hammond have abandoned austerity even if they aren't going for it as gleefully as Osbourne did. They may have put a break on new cuts but the previous ones are still going ahead and that brake can be removed at any time.

Some of the stuff that was coming out re: an industrial strategy the other day was not inherently terrible and went a bit beyond the usual platitudes, but I have zero faith in their following through on it.

the notion of an industrial strategy is fundamentally counter-Thatcherite, I'm not even sure there are many Tories who think in those terms any more, a lot of Statist business types are closer to a Blairite position than anything

That's true, but the current direction of travel also strikes me as counter-Thatcherite, I'm just not sure the extent to which many Tories have noticed amidst all the shock and awe of Brexit. The Thatcherites will bite back eventually.

no doubt. their silence right now is as cynical and corrosive as the PLP's.

no doubt. their silence right now is as cynical and corrosive as the PLP's.

Owen's put his hand up

http://uk.businessinsider.com/khan-dismisses-corbyn-claim-ministers-erode-workers-rights-brexit-2017-1

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has repeatedly claimed that the government plans to turn Britain into a "bargain basement economy" with "low wages and worse conditions."

However Khan today dismissed the claims, saying that he had seen "no evidence" that ministers wanted to erode rights and suggested that they should be given "credit" for committing to protect them.

@CCHQPress

PM: Jeremy Corbyn should listen to Sadiq Khan, who has paid credit to the Govts plan on workers rights t#PMQs

what is Khan's motive for saying this? is it an attempt to disassociate himself from Corbyn (and Labour more generally if it continues to follow a Corbynite direction) and present himself as a centrist, increase his chances of being re-elected even if Labour sees its vote share collapse over the next few years?

Probably. I assume that 'maintaining the confidence' of business is another factor.

that's what I like about Khan --> absolutely nothing.

You'll love this then:

Sadiq: roof garden justifies lack of affordable homes at E&C

Reminds me of going past a development under construction in Brixton last week and seeing the notice promising X number of homes "a third of which will be staffordable". So fucking offensive, what does it even mean.

ha, ignore that s

does anyone know any good reading material on non-voters (both here and in the US, and I guess across Europe)? I keep thinking about the tightness of the percentages in these elections from hell and the vast bloc of people who abstained

what about them?

taffordable? I still don't get it.

i think the sign said gtf to Stafford if you want affordable housing

wales imo

discount for employees of the development owners perhaps

The metric for 'affordable' housing is so broken as to be effectively meaningless in London. 80% of a £2500 per month market rate would mean you'd need to earn £60k a year after tax to be spending the UK average proportion of your wages on rent iirc.

what about them?

― ogmor, Wednesday, January 25, 2017 3:09 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

their motivations, their political engagement/lack of, their reasons for not voting, their alienation from the process, everything

there doesn't actually seem to be much obvious reading material around which is why I asked

Turnout for the Brexit ref. was much higher than for any recent General Election, I believe.

I recently read a think-tank type piece that basically said that with credit costs and (some) incomes being what they are, you could pretty much flood the London market with new housing without causing much more than 2% reduction in prices. So building new social housing is pretty much the only solution to the problem and no one is proposing it.

lowest voting turnout in the uk is amongst the poor and ethnic minorities and would skew disproportionately labour/left, everything is as you'd expect and based on pragmatism/cynicism/realism etc.

at the risk of sounding contrarian, voting seems like it needs a lot more explanation as a behaviour

Turnout for the Brexit ref. was much higher than for any recent General Election, I believe.

Yeah this left me feeling that higher turnouts for GEs wouldn't really offer different outcomes under FPTP (but then FPTP seems a huge deterrent to non-voters).

It skewed towards Brexit, among the poorest in the white community.

ppl who didn't vote in previous GEs were less interested in getting out of the EU than voters iirc

Don't know, haven't seen any figures on that.

I can imagine a lot of 'young people' who hadn't voted in the GE voted to stay in.

Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage

If Parliament makes an attempt to stop Brexit, the very gentle English will revolt in the most extraordinary way.

the replies to this are pretty much what you would expect

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/824289997326909441

and the welsh, scots and norn irish, what will they do nigel

Need a Gentle England thread.

(xp) I imagine the Welsh will do whatever they're told to do.

So building new social housing is pretty much the only solution to the problem and no one is proposing it.

Some of the councils are, at least. Southwark has been banging on about it for ages

From what I follow Lab councils may want more housing built but they are in a battle to clear out estates, redevelop and kick out current residents. No wonder there is a % of people who don't care for voting - if you are screwed what does it matter?

As I understand it we are getting a Brexit white paper now? The amendments to a Brexit bill are key - got to enforce freedom of movement. I think in some ways not saying very much of anything - which is probably pure fumbling about - is ok for now. Its the vote that matters.

But I agree (with NV) that the parties are fractured - almost certainly beyond repair. Labour could be fucked over this; the Tories will be fucked if and when any consequences of a harsh braxit manifest themselves (if a soft Brexit is enforced it could save the Tories). The industrial strategy is all hot air as well.

May's speech to Trump will say:

“So as we rediscover our confidence together – as you renew your nation just as we renew ours – we have the opportunity, indeed the responsibility, to renew the special relationship for this new age. We have the opportunity to lead, together, again.”

But but Global Britain. A truly Global Britain.

lol @ everyone who on the basis of no evidence at all and having obviously never paid any attention to Theresa May before now, somehow thought she'd take a ~moral stance~ in her dealings with Trump

Sucking up to Trump was inevitable but the theme of "national renewal" applied approvingly to his programme is probably slightly closer to flirting with actual fascism than she normally aims for.