Because It's 2016: Canadian Politics in Sunnier Days

xp. yeah the hedging bets, waiting for more to come out, minimizing of bissonnette's ideology is sickening but to be expected.

also on fbook i was seeing people complaining about people bringing up the xenophobia of quebecois culture in light of the shooting. smh.

A Trump lover on my FB feed was talking about the (supposedly multiple) killers' 'Arabic heritage' and 'Moroccan descent' soon after the shooting.

Those actually were some of the initial reports (even CBC I think - I was watching tv switching channels) which is pretty messed up.

Oh, I know, but this guy was really making a point of it: "Two people of Arabic heritage - so NOW we know why the media hasn't been covering it". Eating crow now, hopefully.

jim

okay good to know

i need one if i wanted to visit canada as well (because i am a us lpr) so i decided not to go

Goddamn Fox: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-01/quebec-mosque-shooting:-fox-news-deletes-tweet/8233210

Good on Trudeau for saying this:

"Make no mistake, this was a terrorist attack,"

and fuck him on this

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-abandons-electoral-reform/article33855925/

god if the ndp had their shit together they're so much material to attack the grits from the left with

(I'm of the opinion that the ndp are not going to get anywhere near being the party of government for the indefinite future and should use their parliamentary platform as a sort of pressure group)

What I wrote on FB fwiw:

"We'll definitely replace the system but we have no idea with what" was never that inspiring of a promise tbf.

If I had ever actually thought "the Liberal Party of Canada is serious about keeping its promises", this would have been an alarming one: FPTP has its problems but it has at least been the basis for a functional democratic system for 150 years in Canada (and centuries longer in the UK). I'm in favour of reform but promising to replace the entire electoral system in a short time before even deciding on an alternative would have been pretty reckless if it were not an empty promise that every voter could interpret the way they wanted. Lots of alternatives could be worse.

I'd rather start by seeing more autonomy and less party discipline for MPs, since they're the only people we actually vote for, before changing the voting system. If we're going to reform the way we vote, I'd favour some sort of ranked ballot system. The way the Liberals went about this was definitely not the way to do it, though.

Ha, I see I said some of that a month ago.

my only real problem with FPP is that all the centre-left parties cannibalize each other's votes, so the voting system rarely spits out the outcome I want. If Canada had one monolithic lefty party and three conservative parties fighting over the same group of votes, I would love FPP.

A ranked ballot system (STV or AV) would address the vote-splitting issue.

Did you like FPTP in the 90s? The issues that I have with the system now are the same ones I had then.

i just really dislike fptp because i don't really believe that a party that gets a <40% share of the electorate that bothered to vote has the legitimacy to have complete control of the legislative and executive functions of the government.

I liked how it ended Stockwell Day's run... It is a stable and effective system, even though it privileges regional parties like Reform and BQ and means the NDP will never sniff power again

libs will go back to disliking it when the tories get back in i guess

Next time they need to win lefty votes they can just promise to overturn it again

i just really dislike fptp because i don't really believe that a party that gets a <40% share of the electorate that bothered to vote has the legitimacy to have complete control of the legislative and executive functions of the government.

I agree but I think this could also be dealt with if there was less pressure for MPs to vote along party lines.

i don't see how that sort of situation can be arrived at tho? is that a thing that has been introduced in other places/by what methods?

here's an illustration of why i like more proportional systems

http://www.scotsman.com/news/dominic-hinde-budget-deal-a-milestone-for-green-politics-1-4356617

Elections to the Scottish Parliament use a Mixed-member proportional system.

The SNP received 46.5% of constituency votes and 41.7% of regional list votes in 2016. in FPTP they would likely have a majority, yet they have under 50% of seats in the Scottish Parliament and have formed a minority government.

They're in a fairly commanding position as befits their proportion of the vote vis-a-vis their opponents, but can't act with impunity, and must make concessions to the opposition to pass a budget.

and fuck him on this

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-abandons-electoral-reform/article33855925/

― sean gramophone, Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:19 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

have they abandoned electoral reform permanently or just in time for the next election? seems obvious that it is not ready for next elxn yet, both in terms of logistics and like, there hasn't been a mature national conversation about it yet. and it's a pretty complex topic, not something u wanna rush. i get feeling burned bc it was a campaign promise, but i never expected it to come to pass

i don't see how that sort of situation can be arrived at tho? is that a thing that has been introduced in other places/by what methods?

I would re-frame this: why is party discipline so strict in Canada? The UK has almost the exact same system on a national basis but MPs seem freer: David Cameron was clearly at odds with much of his own caucus on the EU, to the point where he held a referendum on something he didn't believe in and had to resign. 47 Labour MPs voted against Corbyn on Article 50. Congressmen in the US are not nearly as bound by party lines as Canadian MPs are: House Democrats were divided on things like the Iraq War, the ACA, even Trump's cabinet appointments. This article cites several experts who think Canada has the strictest party discipline of any advanced democracy.

Potential ways to address this: Parliament passing rules that MPs cannot be whipped except under certain circumstances, parties passing rules that party leaders have to be accountable to their caucuses (as is the case with some British and Australian parties), stricter separation between riding-level fundraising and national-level party fundraising.

and fuck him on this

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/trudeau-abandons-electoral-reform/article33855925/

― sean gramophone, Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:19 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

have they abandoned electoral reform permanently or just in time for the next election? seems obvious that it is not ready for next elxn yet, both in terms of logistics and like, there hasn't been a mature national conversation about it yet. and it's a pretty complex topic, not something u wanna rush. i get feeling burned bc it was a campaign promise, but i never expected it to come to pass

― flopson, Thursday, February 2, 2017 12:42 PM (twenty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

looks like theyve just abandoned it. trudeau wanted a ranked ballot as that would benefit libs most, as things weren't pointing in that direction it's been scrapped. libs win the next election or two and then when the tories are back in they'll put it back on the agenda. love me some democracy!

I would re-frame this: why is party discipline so strict in Canada? The UK has almost the exact same system on a national basis but MPs seem freer: David Cameron was clearly at odds with much of his own caucus on the EU, to the point where he held a referendum on something he didn't believe in and had to resign. 47 Labour MPs voted against Corbyn on Article 50. Congressmen in the US are not nearly as bound by party lines as Canadian MPs are: House Democrats were divided on things like the Iraq War, the ACA, even Trump's cabinet appointments. This article cites several experts who think Canada has the strictest party discipline of any advanced democracy.

going to be a pedant here: David Cameron did not need to have the EU ref. He knew that that there was euroscepticism in the UK and that to deflect the right-wing alternative offered by UKIP, and to ward off the anti-eu competitors for his leadership within the tory party, he specifically made a referendum a campaign promise and then went through with it assuming that it would be won and that his position would be secured, and UKIP would be chastened and damaged by a referendum defeat. His MPs, many of whom wanted the referendum, could never have made him do anything, it was entirely self-inflicted and done out of political (mis)calculation.

it's common for MPs to vote against the whip in the uk, but generally where the vote is symbolic, and quite rarely when the rebelling vote will make a difference (though more than in canada I'm sure). The parliamentary labour party are also particularly and almost uniquely in contemporary UK politics in revolt against the Corbyn leadership

That wasn't pedantic at all. Thanks for expanding.

With all the troubles right now, I'm just glad we aren't going through a referendum. Don't get me wrong, I am all for reform but I understand Trudeau, we saw what happened to the last two prominent PM (Renzi/Cameron) who proposed this dubious democratic practice.

Anyone watch the Tory debate? I'm about 19m in here. What do they have, like, 12 candidates?? (Edit: just checked; there are 14!) I'm actually a little intrigued that almost all of them (except Chong?) are so opposed to a carbon tax. I would have thought shifting taxes from income to consumption might appeal to conservatives.

And, yes, wtf is going on with the NDP?

Ugh, Idk who Rick Peterson is but he's calling for a flat income tax.

Lol @ Andrew Saxton: "[Economists] are in their ivory towers, sipping their tea and coffee, dealing with theory and not practice". The latte-loving elites have been reduced to tea and coffee now?

Hm, I actually agree with Raitt and Alexander on reducing the number of sexual assault claims that get dismissed as 'unfounded'.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazine/thirteen-canadians-we-want-back-from-trumps-america/article33773631/

ha elon musk

dude literally lives in a city protected by tall metal gates

every time i pass by i feel like im in the twilight zone

Lol @ Andrew Saxton: "[Economists] are in their ivory towers, sipping their tea and coffee, dealing with theory and not practice". The latte-loving elites have been reduced to tea and coffee now?

― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:17 AM (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

guessing game. who is this:

"He took up post-secondary studies again at the University of Calgary, where he completed a bachelor's degree in economics in 1985. He later returned there to earn a master's degree in economics, completed in 1991."

That sounds like Harper but I'm hoping that also describes Saxton.

it's harper. saxton studied and worked in finance.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/sunny-ways-is-trudeaus-best-play/article33984428/

Truth be told, the oil and vinegar comparisons of Mr. Trudeau and U.S. President Donald Trump are overdone. Neither are ideological leaders. They both grew up knowing privilege. They are both image obsessed, celebrity politicians who manipulate social media like pros. It’s not hard to picture Mr. Trump taking to his young, Vogue-certified interlocutor, especially if the fashion-forward Ivanka sits in on their chat.

ha

but seriously:

What he responds well to is validation of his hugeness. Mr. Trudeau must humour him if he has to. By all means, he must not publicly criticize him or contradict him in the joint news conference the two leaders will likely hold after their meeting – even if reporters try to provoke him and his anti-Trump base back home wants him to stand up to the brutish Yankee leader. As one veteran of Canada-U.S. diplomacy explained: “The Liberals need to forget about their base because it’s going to disappear if they lose five million Canadian jobs.”

This is not the assignment Mr. Trudeau signed up for when he was elected. But it’s the one that history has handed him. If he manages it well, it will yield huge economic and political dividends. Canadians will be eternally grateful if this country ends up on the right side of the protectionist wall Mr. Trump seems intent on erecting.

For all of Mr. Trudeau’s affinities with Mr. Obama, the latter was just not that into Canada and never did his friends any favours. Mr. Trump, properly treated, could do us many.

i think the churchill/martin luther king bust replacement is inaccurate though

+also

I totally get the importance of diplomacy but the PET/Nixon comparison is interesting: it's not exactly like PET's base disappeared despite the antagonism between him and Nixon.

that's true

and support for pet has increased over the past 30 years

This is curious: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/pre-clearance-bill-would-give-us-border-agents-in-canada-new-powers/ar-AAmQSmI

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/national/andrew+coyne+conservative+hysteria+over+harmless+motion/12923560/story.html

Conservatism used to have some claim to being a coherent political philosophy. Of late it has become a series of dares. The most extreme voice will lay down the most extreme position, then challenge others to endorse it.

This is gross: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/bus-driver-minister-laughter-1.3984808

Unrelated, I'm half-seriously thinking of buying a Tory membership to vote for Chong.

been talking to a lot of people who are thinknig of doing exactly that, myself included -- gotta look up if i can join the ndp after to try to elect an actual progressive there too

Ugh, I did that in 2011 and voted for Mulcair. Last election campaign felt like such a crushing letdown.

I can't remember who I voted for in that one, but if def wasn't him. not that my choice was necessarily better... mighta been cullen? can't remember.

Amusing (if weird) fluff: https://noisey.vice.com/en_us/article/justin-trudeau-despises-paul-simon-a-rebuttal?utm_source=noiseyfbusads

more nafta talk and random thoughts

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/nafta-trump-canada-and-trade-the-latest/article33715250/

this is really interesting

i heard from a couple mexicans that if a trade war does occur, the mexican gov't will not cooperate with the us gov't's demands on curtailing immigration from certain countries (read middle eastern countries) nor will it prosecute particular criminals. now i'm reading in the above article that mexico's president has actually said this as well

i think there's a 'let islamic terrorists enter the us through mexico' sentiment among mexicans as pay back right now

trump may want to propose an all or nothing approach because of this? but his advisors will probably tell him he has to bargain. all very tricky

mexico is pretty much pleading to canada to agree to bilateral agreements only, but i really doubt this

the graph depicting the survey results for what countries we should increase trade ties with reflects my own: (1) us; (2) eu; (3) china

in fact, i think we should really work on the eu, so we'll see how ceta goes

http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/us-customs-block-canadian-man-reading-scruff-profile-215531

this is scary because the type of jokes people make with friends privately (through text eg) could probably be misconstrued

Anyone else follow that Tony Clement radio tantrum? And he's still at it on his facebook and twitter. RIDICULOUS.

been talking to a lot of people who are thinknig of doing exactly that, myself included -- gotta look up if i can join the ndp after to try to elect an actual progressive there too

So afaict, the NDP doesn't let you hold another party's membership as well as theirs. At this point, I'm leaning towards thinking that the Tory leadership might matter more than the NDP leadership. I am wondering if voting for Mulcair as NDP leader in 2011 and Chong as Tory leader in 2017 means I'm really a closet Liberal.

19-yeare-old closet case is youngest ever MPP

there really should be a minimum age requirement