Rolling Brexit Links/UK politics in the neo-Weimar era

Despite my Stalinism coming through earlier the poll numbers are as much a reflection on what a rag the Labour Party has been since Corbyn took over. Not saying he would've won but May would not have called an election if they were unified to such an extent that he would be able to push policies he is advocating if he were ever to win.

Pasok etc.

one of the small grim nuggets of amusement from a Labour thrashing at the polls will be that by sheer weight of numbers there'll be a lot of Blairites losing seats

Morons and Scum -- I agree. Well said.

― the pinefox, Sunday, 23 April 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I am going out campaigning for Labour in an hour!

― the pinefox, Sunday, 23 April 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Can you let us know how this turns out. Thanks.

lol

one of the small grim nuggets of amusement from a Labour thrashing at the polls will be that by sheer weight of numbers there'll be a lot of Blairites losing seats

― Brexterminate all the brutes (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 23 April 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Wes Streeting will be sweeping the floor at a McD's 4evah post-June 8th.

Most people are out, or are very good at remaining very quiet and not answering the door to canvassers.

Some people who answer say they are too busy to talk.

Some people who talk for a moment say they have not made up their minds.

One person grandiloquently said he had been Labour all his life but would never vote for Corbyn who has destroyed the chance of social justice for the working class in this country.

One person was enthusiastic for our MP.

One person might vote LD.

One person will vote Labour but said 'Corbyn is the problem - as I'm sure you're hearing'.

Radio 4: Tony Blair says he feels like getting back into politics.

Tough crowd xp

I'd love to believe in this deux ex machina fantasy I've been seeing of massive numbers of momentum kids suddenly registering to vote but I can't bring myself to

(xxp) Remain wing of the Conservative Party could do with a spokesman tbf.

Ken Clarke can't live forever.

One person grandiloquently said he had been Labour all his life but would never vote for Corbyn who has destroyed the chance of social justice for the working class in this country.

You challenged this?

Tom Watson is a diifcult man to reason with.

That's a good one Tom D !!

No - it wasn't my job to challenge people's views today, just to collect them. And this particular household was really being canvassed by a colleague; I was just observing.

I did find it an odd thing to say. If you are seriously interested in social justice for the working class in this country then you would at least notice that JC believes in these things, more passionately than most MPs, even if he won't manage to deliver them.

I did wonder if there was a time when electoral activity shifted from actively campaigning and debating to just deferentially gathering information. I feel as though there was a time in the past when you would actually get debate on the doorstep.

Relatively speaking, I think Ken Clarke is more of a decent human being than Blair, and he has better taste in music.

neither of those things are high bars tbf

he actually likes music music is a better way of putting it, unlike the "eclectic" likes of Kendall who love every thing from Dire Straits to Public Enemy!

I've never quit reconciled myself with the big clunking fist reaching over to turn up that Arctic Monkeys CD.

nah can we stop this relative stuff - Ken Clarke closed a bunch of hospitals as health sec, don't care if he liked jazz.

Can say a lot of shit about Blair but that government put a lot of cash in Hospitals.

also both Dire Straits and Public Enemy are really good, so can't really fault Kendall for that.

there was that weird thing about 10 years ago when all these journalists were suggesting that Cameron was only pretending to like the Smiths and the Killers to look cool, when that's *exactly* what music I'd expect someone of his age and background to be into - it seemed like it hit a little too close to home for some of them? looking forward to our first PM who was a teenage Slipknot fan

"also both Dire Straits and Public Enemy are really good, so can't really fault Kendall for that."

which is irrelevant, am more talking about the grasping desperation of Blairites pretending to like stuff, like the example of Broon trying to get down with the kids above!

People (well, people who like them) associate the Smiths with outsiderdom, Northerness, lgbtq themes, and assume all this is incompatible with being a tory. This ignores that a very common position amongst conservatives is that the left is rubbish at politics but good at art.

Morrissey-Brexit-Was-Beautiful might actually disgust me more than David Cameron these days, in terms of opinions held. Though thankfully unlike Cameron he's never been put in a position where his views have actual consequences.

Though thankfully unlike Cameron he's never been put in a position where his views have actual consequences.

Yet. We never thought Trump would be president. Prime Minister Morrissey can no longer be ruled out.

Hasn't that Arctic Monkeys story been debunked. IIRC he was asked about them and said something non-committal along the lines that they'd get you up in the morning or something similar. Next day it was Broon's a massive Arctic Monkeys fan and has all their albums.

xp

It would be the Vichy Britain under uber-fuhrer Mosley our ancestors missed out on.

Asked if he really liked the band, the Chancellor responded: 'You've got to laugh, because actually I was asked did I prefer Arctic Monkeys to James Blunt (of 'You're Beautiful' fame), and I think I said I'd prefer Coldplay. But I made a joke that Arctic Monkeys would certainly wake you up in the morning. So, I mean, I've heard Arctic Monkeys and they're very loud.'

Pressed on his favourite track, the Chancellor could only say: 'Well, I mean, I have got them. But they are very loud.'

Brown does own an iPod - his wife bought it for him - but it is said to contain largely speeches, including Bob Geldof's famous four-letter tirade at Live Aid, and classical music.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/23/tony-blair-vote-tory-or-lib-dem-where-they-are-open-minded-on-brexit

article suggests that TB is violating Labour rules by potentially endorsing rival parties.

i say support terrorists where they are open-minded on killing Blair

Exactly what I was driving at earlier, this piece of shit is worse than any Tory.

Get Darling and Mandy out telling people to vote Conservative as well. After all, they did such a good job for Leave the electorate won't have forgotten them yet.

The Arctic Monkey debut really fell prey to the loudness war, it's true.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/23/when-nigel-farage-met-julian-assange

Assange panicking over being turned over to US in exchange for a fast-track trade deal.

Blair is doing his own version of what I see a lot of otherwise well-meaning liberals posting on social media, that they'll vote for whichever candidate says they'll "stop Brexit". I've posted before that the ongoing destruction of the welfare state is worse than Brexit, and what these people are doing is falling into May's trap of making this a single-issue election. If it's allowed to become Brexit referendum mark two then it will allow her policies on other things to become dangerously under-scrutinised - because when she wins she'll take it as carte blanche to do whatever the fuck she wants.

In some ways the process of Brexit will drain public finances which will facilitate the destruction of Welfare and NHS and so on except people aren't even attempting to link these issues.

This is where that "Joylon" critique really comes to life - for some people this is their badge. Really fucked.

There was a documentary on R4 on homelessness last year that featured a couple of "metropolitan elite" types that ended up homeless. One of them a single parent teacher who was living in hellish temp accommodation with her young daughter. Another was a former wealthy type from the banking system who had mental health problems and ended up a rough sleeper. This should be one of Labour's lines of attack. Do you really want to live in a country where a redundancy or a spell of illness could be a fast track route onto the streets. But sadly most of the PLP seem to be stuck in the old "benefit scroungers" rhetoric used in the Blair era, it's the only way to get elected apparently.

In some ways the process of Brexit will drain public finances which will facilitate the destruction of Welfare and NHS and so on except people aren't even attempting to link these issues.

Yeah this is what I meant upthread about the two things exacerbating and feeding into one another. Austerity (or more to the point the narrative that there was no alternative to austerity and no end in sight) helped create the conditions for Brexit, which is why Osborne should be getting more blame than he actually is.

Calzino - I do think we are now living in a country where one set of precarious workers are unable to empathise with another, but we've had decades of divide-and-rule rhetoric largely aimed at keeping unions down so it's not surprising.

If all the PLP were on message about why the Welfare State and the NHS minus creeping privatisation are very good things, maybe they would seem a lot stronger + the full spectrum of precarious people (possibly even some of the 70k club could end up on their arses post-brexit, Weimar stylee) might listen. Probably naive of me, but just a thought.

I'm surprised even with everything else going on that we have a defence minister who casually states that there are circumstances where the UK would use nuclear weapons as a first strike. And yet Corbyn is the 'security risk'.

Both things - Brexit + austerity / neo-Thatcherism etc - are terrible. They are linked and feed into each other, including re the idea that 'Brexit is the way to finish what Maggie started', etc. People should be against both.

DC is right, though -- May's 'Brexit mandate' will also be taken as a mandate to do terrible things that are not specifically linked to Brexit. That's a good observation about a terrible situation.

On that, a bad sign about Blair's interview yesterday was that while questioning Brexit, he specifically said several times that TM had good policies and he agreed with her about a lot of things.

It's good to oppose Brexit and oppose TM's dire Con policies. But it's not good to oppose Brexit and support them.

AlanSmithee -- we have a normative situation in which the people who will casually say that they would incinerate millions are sensible, and people who have qualms about that idea are suspect.

That Farage article upthread is serious stuff - though it says he is part of a 'libertarian' movement which I don't really think is the case; might as well say authoritarian.

Libertarian in the US sense of wanting to do away with all government restrictions on big business? He doesn't crow much about it but if he ever got anywhere near power I'd expect that's what he would do.

Most if not all libertarians skew authoritarian re people not like them tho eh

I don't know, I don't think a lot of these types want a heavy police state - tho traditionally going back to at least Nozick maintenance of civil order is the one role that Libertarians are willing to concede to the state - they would rather exclude/expel, internally or otherwise, those they perceive to be threats or burdens

see for example Trump's Wall or the anti-refugee rhetoric of right wing Europols - the Other is to be kept at bay, not to be managed or assimilated

seriously don't think it's worth trying to parse farage *or* trump in terms of some underlying "philosophy", as if they were disciples of oakeshott or nozick or whoever

trump is an ill-informed bigot with a lifetime's quiver of dealmaking noises and moves -- he'll say whatever he thinks works to work the room, often fashioned directly out of the last thing he heard

farage is a conman, beginning and end

I guess I was thinking more of the ventriloquists than their dummies, fair point

Zac G has returned to the Tories to run for Richmond Park again, be pretty sweet to see him beaten again.