Trump, June 2017: From [Covfefe] with Love

Relieving, not receiving.

i don't think the dems would vote for it regardless - i think the point was more that dems are not gonna turn the dial up to 11 on obstructionist tactics they could do, which i understand would push back the vote by a week or two at most

q week or two is a massive amount of time if used correctly imo

no Dems are going to vote for the ACHA

Top Senate D aide emails to say not going nuclear on AHCA also allows them to hammer out bipartisan Russian sanctions deal. So there's that
— Jeff Stein (@JStein_Vox) June 13, 2017

What

The

Fuck

No D is going to vote for it, sheesh. It's just a question of what procedural stuff they can do to show they are Doing Something. Never mind whether the something is pointless or even counterproductive.

IIRC we already had that conversation on the Gorsuch filibuster. Insert your stock pro/con arguments again here, I guess.

BTW Gorsuch is on the Court anyway, and good ILX leftists still think the Dems are spineless pussies anyway.

i do think a week or two would be crucial yeah, given that there is a very hard deadline to get the AHCA passed under budget reconciliation rules

Stopping this murderous bill should be a first priority. They should stall as much as possible, whip up as much public anger as possible, do anything they can.

YMP otm

Imo we should see if Russia hacked Senate ballots next

They should stall as much as possible, whip up as much public anger as possible, do anything they can.

Exactly. That seems neither pointless nor counter-productive to me.

but who says collegiality is dead amirite

counterpoint: https://newrepublic.com/minutes/143300/senate-democrats-need-go-nuclear-trumpcare-right-now

someone call a scientist

Duh.

They would go nuclear if it was called the Murder Sick Americans Act I hope. That's what the bill does.

Part of me thinks the GOP is going to punt the AHCA when it appears passing it will defang it and go back to Let ACA fail mode.

The GOP is interested only in optics, not governing. And if they fail to pass it, they can assign blame outward.

Xpost "living is a privilege, not a right. Nothing in the Bill of Rights protects you from murder "

There seem to be a good number of congressional Republicans who really believe voters directed them to dismantle Obamacare. I think that's a misreading -- their voters were anti-Obama, not anti-health-care.

first of all, there is no "nuclear option" over the AHCA. The GOP doesn't need their votes to pass AHCA, everything is already set up for it to be passed along 51-seat majority vote, there's no need to break a filibuster, etc.

The tactics referred to in that tweet are all *unrelated* to the AHCA bill, and more like the Senate Democrats just refusing to do any work at all: denying quorums on committee proceedings, boycotting hearings, etc. The upshot of this is that the Democrats stop governing or having any voice in Senate proceedings. Who thinks this would be a good thing and why? What would happen is that the GOP would get pissed and just pass everything they want anyway, only slightly slower. Bizarre that anyone thinks McConnell would not see through this tactic, exploit it, and get what he wants. The Dems should fight AHCA tooth and nail, but these are stupid, ineffective tactics you guys are arguing for.

xp

Who cares what they think.

If Democrats fail to make a big show of blocking this sneaky, evil bill in order to keep a spotlight on Russia, they are imbeciles with backwards priorities.

outic & ymp otm

yeah the dems tried to boycott committee hearings over some of the cabinet noms, but the GOP just went ahead and modified the rules so they could pass the noms through without a quorum

no reason why the GOP wouldn't just convene a 52-person senate and vote the bill into law.

The Republicans are going to be pissed and pass what they want anyway. Slowing it down creates opportunities for their plans to be thrown off course.

activists should be focusing on pressuring "moderate" GOP votes *and* (if we want to get into ratfucking) encouraging people like Lee and Cruz and Paul to also vote against it cuz it "doesn't go far enough". McConnell can only lose two votes here, and the odds of him holding his caucus together on it - including Collins and Murkowski and others - is still pretty slim. That's where the wedge is, that's where pressure should be applied. Getting an inconsequential delay while also pushing GOP votes *towards* the bill to spite Dem intransigence is a dumb idea.

x;p

The upshot of this is that the Democrats stop governing or having any voice in Senate proceedings.

WTF have any of them been doing at all the last few months? Sure, the GOP has not passed legislation, but related to that, neither have the Dems. Those not actively sitting on investigative panels have been up to ... what?

They would go nuclear if it was called the Murder Sick Americans Act I hope. That's what the bill does.

hey, let's be fair. is it murder if you watch someone desperately in need of medical care die, even though you could have helped them? there's no legal obligation, at least not in the US and that's why this act should be called the Anti-Samaritans Shitting Hellfire On Lonely Enemies Act

Even if the Senate passes it it still has to go back to the House. Via a CBO review. Right?

If Democrats fail to make a big show of blocking this sneaky, evil bill in order to keep a spotlight on Russia, they are imbeciles with backwards priorities.

it's not about making "a big show" it's about stopping a fucking bill!! these things are sometimes different!

if the Senate passes it yes it goes back to the House and the two bills have to be reconciled in "conference", but there will be massive pressure on the House GOP to capitulate and accept the Senate's (presumably) less draconian vision. Who knows what would happen there, if the Freedom Caucus would go for it, etc. but it would be better to just stop the bill in the Senate in the first place.

The most fruitful advice, I think, is to get friends in Maine to call Collins, Murkowski in Alaska, and Capito in West Virginia. If McConnell loses even two, it's over.

Those not actively sitting on investigative panels have been up to ... what?

https://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/d_three_sections_with_teasers/congrecord.htm have fun

They need to do something to put the AHCA back in the headlines and whip up public fury again.

thank u shakey

no reason why the GOP wouldn't just convene a 52-person senate and vote the bill into law.

I know this is a joke (or I hope it is) but no, they can't do that. It would be unconstitutional.

https://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/d_three_sections_with_teasers/congrecord.htm have fun

US Government=TL;DR

It would be unconstitutional.

Join the club.

Simon, FWIW, I generally agree - and I thought the filibuster of Gorsuch was necessary, though it didn't keep him off the SC. I'm only sounding leery/jaded because I have seen this argument play out before and know the rhetorical moves.

On one hand, Ds need to demonstrate fealty to the fired-up base to keep that relationship marginally healthy. On the other hand, clogging up business on other committees could potentially do more harm than good, as Outic writes.

Anyway I also know that some folks will never think well of mainstream Ds no matter what they do or don't do. It's not like showing spine on Gorsuch made anybody here suddenly think Schumer's a righteous dude.

Gorsuch filibuster was necessary because Dems essentially had nothing to lose and it was a big deal. No GOP Senators were ever going to vote against Gorsuch, it wasn't even a question. But this is different because there potentially *are* GOP Senators who may vote against the AHCA, and the Dems need to get those votes. That is the goal.

Have even all the GOP senators seen it?

🚨CODE RED: Senate Dem chiefs of staff from NV, WV, OH say Heller, Capito, Portman are likely to vote yes on Trumpcare. 🚨

— Topher Spiro (@TopherSpiro) June 13, 2017

those are the three non-Murkowski/Collins swing votes

Collins also spoke out in favor of the bill earlier this week, so I guess the best plan is to activate NV, WV, and OH dems to spam phone lines

Gorsuch is on the Court anyway, and good ILX leftists still think the Dems are spineless pussies anyway.

Ah, the old "spine" thing again. That is not the problem with Democrats. The problem is most of them (Schumer, the Clintons, Obama) are corporatist RIGHT-WINGERS.

(Using a sane definition, not post-Reagan "move the whole spectrum" Lewis Carroll shit.)

CONDITIONS for any interview: Previously granted permission from senator AND Rules Committee of Senate

— Kasie Hunt (@kasie) June 13, 2017

Sorry, that's a reply to a previous tweet, which is here:

ALERT: Reporters at Capitol have been told they are not allow to film interviews with senators in hallways, contrary to years of precedent

— Kasie Hunt (@kasie) June 13, 2017

I would think Flake in AZ might be pressurable on AHCA as well...?

McConnell keeping this all behind closed doors, with no CBO score etc. is very smart - it makes it really hard to rally opposition because there's no talking points, no handy metrics, no specifics that people can point to as being especially odious. It makes it easy to frame any opposition look irrational, misinformed, premature. Like what can Dems oppose when there is literally nothing there, no bill to dissect, no hearings to ask questions at? All the Senators can do is maintain ranks and maybe try to personally buttonhole colleagues, while the grassroots works the phone banks for possible GOP swing votes. I don't think there's too many other viable tactics.

doesn't the senate bill requires a CBO score before it can be voted on?

fixed

It makes it easy to frame any opposition as irrational, misinformed, premature. Like what can Dems oppose when there is literally nothing there, no bill to dissect, no hearings to ask questions at? All the Dem Senators can do is maintain ranks and maybe try to personally buttonhole colleagues, while the grassroots works the phone banks for possible GOP swing votes.

Yes Senate Bill requires a CBO score but it probably won't be released until a couple days before the vote, so there won't be much time.

it makes it really hard to rally opposition because there's no talking points

idk "the GOP is trying to pass a healthcare bill so awful they're ashamed to talk about it public" is a pretty good one

yeah, and I'm seeing that passed around