The stars turn: the TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread

The creation of meaning is a two-way street; I'm not that interested in the codebreaking side of this but I don't see how referencing religious texts is that different to drawing connections to avant-garde films lynch almost certainly hasn't seen

Saw this link in the story Aldo linked: https://subliminalsynchrosphere.blogspot.nl/2017/04/twin-peaks-under-sycamore-tree-redux.html

Holy shit. I wonder if that guy is even glad it's back, because that will eat up another couple of years to fill his blog with

xxxp with Adam :)

yeah people seem to forget that Mark Frost is a big part of this and esoteric historical, mystical/religious texts are things the dude is obviously fascinated with and probably more relevant than Pixies album covers and Powers of 10 tbh

i just dont see how an Isaac Newton alchemy text is any more relevant than the Bible, esp considering he directly references classical Biblical imagery w Laura and the angel in FWWM. seems like an attempt to find something obsure and elevate it.

Pixies was circa the same era, someone upthread pointed out a 4AD guy worked w Lynch. very relevant.

Powers Of Ten? you don't think that's relevant at all to the slow zoom of atomic blast? like Lynch never saw that but he painstakingly went through a 17th century alchemy pamphlet

Again, Mark Frost. And gold and alchemy seem way relevant! Also the atomic blast was way more Kubrick/2001 and Tree of Life than Powers of Ten.

it doesn't particularly matter what lynch saw, fwiw I think there's a good chance he didn't do either of those things (although again, if the alchemy text is an influence it'll be from frost, you know the dude who wrote this)

Xp!

Side note: I read that Lynch was an admirer of Malick but that Tree of Life wasn't his "cup of tea". Hard to not see it in that sequence though.

• "albert, we're headed for the black hills of south dakota" v white sands new mexico
• "fire walk with me" v "this is the water"

gordon even mentions the black hills while standing in front of the white sands bomb photo in his office

what if Lynch unfortunately really loved The Fountain

It's a mutual admiration. Malick's KNIGHT OF CUPS contains the audio of Major Briggs' description of his dream to Bobby, playing over shots of L.A.

oh shit, yeah, that kinda did my head in when that popped up

That was so random lol

I like The Fountain :/

maybe it was Fantasia

Not that it wasn't necessarily chosen because he admires the monologue, but the bit in Knight of Cups is a Biosphere track, no?

Ohhh that makes so much more sense!

I think there's a big difference between Lynch's probable ancient esoterica and to avant garde film (since he occasionally is an avant garde film director)! I'd be shocked if he hasn't seen every movie mentioned upthread. Begotten is the most obscure one, it seems to me, but even that was the subject of a lot of discussion among Movie People in the 90s, iirc.

probable exposure that is

it's gotta be a little hard being Mark Frost

Lynch is avowedly not a cinephile, he has his pantheon of classics that he goes back to but he isn't really up on world cinema or experimental/underground films, although there's a chance he would have been exposed to some of it at the afi

I agree that it's not really productive to dissect this show into atoms, but the impulse comes from earnest and unobjectionable enthusiasm!

yeah, Lynch is not absorbing avant-garde cinema on the regular if his interviews are to be believed. guy claims to have never seen a Maya Deren film and i always assumed she was a major influence.

someone said that previously but I find it hard to believe. A friends claims that he had talked about Deren but someone here said he said he'd never seen Deren. I can't find proof of either on the internet but I'd say that it was virtually impossible that he hadn't seen Meshes, which three of his films play quite explicit homage to. If anyone has a link where he talks about not having seen it then I'd be interested and amazed to see it.

It also seems that Tscherassky's Outer Space, Brakhage and Trumball's tToL & 2001 work are undeniably being referenced here. I do realise you have to take some of Lynch's prononcements with a pinch of salt but there are famous films that anyone of a certain age with an interest in abstaction will have seen, especially if that person is an animator.

(fwiw im not claiming that he hasn't seen 2001)

He went to film school

He has probably seen some movies

There are so many music critics on ILX that the disingenuousness of a lot of creators w/r/t their influences must be familiar. I'm not sure an issue of NME ever went by without at least one band claiming to have never even heard of, and certainly not been influenced by, some other band that they sound exactly like and have obviously listened to a great deal.

xp it would be pretty cool if he literally hasn't

yeah I'm sceptical of the deren claim too & said so itt iirc, it would be one hell of a coincidence if so. As I say I think he would have encountered some of this stuff in film school. I don't have much reason to disbelieve that he hasn't kept up with the cutting edge of cinema post-1977 or so though, like we know he's a fan of malick & kubrick but I's be surprised if he's seen any maddin for example. It's not impossible to imagine arriving at a lot of the visual stuff in this more or less independently (not that anything ever is really "independent" like that) as an extension of stuff that he's been doing since he first made his paintings move. But my original point, which I'll stop making now, is that the likelihood or otherwise of lynch having this stuff in mind shouldn't stop anyone from making the connections

I think the notion that Lynch isn't influenced by other filmmakers is primarily based on preserving the notion of "Lynchian" as being this ineffable quality that no one else has genuine access to and exists in a kind of vacuum (see also the notion of Lynch as a naif etc). I see why people make the argument but I don't buy it

i don't think anyone (here) is arguing that he isn't influenced by other filmmakers

anyway, this is more important i think:

"Lynch was also a member of the high school fraternity Alpha Omega Upsilon, and learned to play the bongos while frequenting a nightclub popular with the Beat Generation, earning the nickname "Bongo Dave".[13]"

yeah I didn't mean anyone here, I was speaking more broadly

Yeah he def is I just don't think he's all that interested in going out and seeing them. Maybe I'm wrong and you couldn't drag him away from the Hou or Costa season at the local arthouse but I don't think so (I also have a feeling he isn't alone in this among us directors). In general he seems a little - not solipsistic exactly, but certainly very narrow in his interests: painting, meditating, eating the same meal every day and only watching the one tv show about car repair or whatever

Of course a lot of this may be interview schtick and printing-the-legend, who knows what the real truth is (or cares)

this is discussed a *little* bit on the new 'cast (out tonight I think)

speaking of influences, in tony oursler's book IMPONDERABLE, which i've been obsessively thumbing through for the past week or so, there are tons of images of psychics/mediums/etc excreting ectoplasm as they channel spirits and the paranormal.

e.g., check out this mouthbarfing medium:

http://i.imgur.com/ykNkRTm.jpg

or check out this stomachbarfing medium:

http://i.imgur.com/QnHJeYk.jpg

the ectoplasm was associated with the creation of spirits, or at least the summoning of them. apologies if the ectoplasm > spirit formation thing is already common knowledge to everyone, but it was all new to me.

...i guess i should state the obvious connection to garmonbozia and the slow motion vomit sequence in episode 8

Was gonna suggest if you get Dennis Lim on you can ask him how much is bullshit xp

Wow @ those pics

oh man, there are so many more. i can't recommend the book highly enough.

(the ectoplasm stuff is only maybe 1% of the book, in case the idea of looking at images of mediums barfing doesn't appeal to everyone for some reason. it's fantastic)

african-american characters in twin peaks:

1. jade
2. this guy: https://files.slack.com/files-tmb/T07R0LRM2-F6183EA49-ff941f4249/idrdwo_1__360.gif

is that it?

Is that a pic of Ernie Hudson? There were about 3 in the original series iirc, not great

You forgot Louie 'Birdsong' Budway (who will be showing up in the revival, apparently). And, ummmmmm...the Jumping Man?

There was the internal affairs guy and I think major Briggs's CO? And a few randos in the pilot

the guy who introduced The Nine Inch Nails

Was gonna suggest if you get Dennis Lim on you can ask him how much is bullshit xp

Looking unlikely :( but we're gonna keep trying!

"not all men" answer: cough cough, actually towns in Washington State that are close to the Canadian border would tend to be > 80% white, Lynch is simply being realistic

That's true, but there is the question of the kinds of roles the few non-white actors get to play (I know you know this, just saying)

don't you "actually" at me, jim