Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

also are we ever gonna get anything with the box ever again? Because as many missing threads as this show has, that one's truly stumping me. It's a cool concept though and I want to guess we'll get answers next week.

Perhaps Coop vs Badcoop interdimensional fisticuffs will include the box at some point.

I nearly posted the naido = "o dian" thing a couple of weeks ago as a joke, wish I had now that so many people seem excited by it lol

I thought part of the point of Jerry showing up was to make it clear that the doppelgänger was in the twin peaks area, so I wouldn't assume he's come that far

Always thought this song had a Lynchy Twin Peaks thing going on

https://youtu.be/plwjBKk8y_s

Something that kind of hit me with the driving scene: the narrative moves around so much that you barely notice how geographically static all the characters are. Cole/Tammy/Albert have been hanging out in Buckhorn, SD for basically the entire series! The Las Vegas people haven't left Las Vegas. Only Bad Coop, Richard Horne, and Tim Roth / JJL are allowed to take to the roads. This somehow seems related to the Audrey-Charlie scenes of just somehow not being able to work up the momentum to get out the door and go to the Roadhouse. (In a way, I found "Audrey and Charlie actually make it to the Roadhouse" more viscerally shocking than Audrey in the white room!)

Not sure we will get any more of the box. The photo suggests it was Mr C's project and given that it failed to capture Coop I guess it's redundant. I also think it might have been destroyed by Mother/The Experiment and it's presumably under police/FBI surveillance now. But you never know...

I'm thinking the Roadhouse scenes are all real, but the Audrey scene was a projection of some sort. Or, as may be more likely, there's something not quite right with the Roadhouse - infected by the Black Lodge, so time and reality are warped.

Craziest part was when Audrey just strolled into the roadhouse without her damn coat

I'm kinda hesitant to dive too deep into coma theories because there was that scene where the guy runs into the double-r and asks "has anyone seen billy?" in the end of part 7. Would that be part of Audrey's coma world? It doesn't feel like it.

The fact that an entire new group of customers appeared when the guy ran in and Shelly and Heidi were standing in different places sure seemed to indicate this was some other reality creeping in.

When Cooper says "I need you to make another one" to MIKE he means there needs to be another tulpa/doppelganger, right? Does the lock of hair mean that he wants MIKE to make another Cooper? Can there be three at once? Trippelganger? MIKE assures Coop that he has a seed. Does he mean the seed that used to be Dougie? Or the one that Diane boils down to later in the episode? Does he need another manufactured being because he needs it for whatever's coming in Twin Peaks? Or is he just saying MIKE needs to send Janey-E and Sonny Jim a refurb Dougie when it's all over?

On some level I don't understand whether Bad Coop is one kind of thing and Dougie / nu-Diane were a separate kind of thing, or whether all three are the same kind of thing but Bad Coop is different by virtue of having Bob in him.

Also I want to stand up for "I am the FBI" -- I think it goes well with the ending, the only classic "cliffhanger" in the series so far that I can remember, and the shootout in Las Vegas -- somehow I feel like this episode wanted to feel "more like TV" if that makes sense

I definitely think a tulpa is different to a doppelgänger yeah. Coop wants Gerard to make a new Dougie for Janey & Sonny Jim (from the original seed that Dougie was made from, which Gerard produces & shows him iirc)

But the original case Albert tells Tammy about -- I forget the name, but two copies of the same woman, one kills the other -- that sounds more like what I think of a "doppelganger" as being, but one of them is described as a tulpa (I think that's where the word is introduced in the show actually)

I also want to register my opinion that the Showtime teaser for this episode should have been "Bad binoculars"

Oh yeah good point about the Lois Duffy thing, but I mean "tulpa" is just a word Tammy came up with, there can still be a distinction between doppelgängers/shadow selves and manufactured people

i assume good coop is making a new tulpa to fight against whatever seed was triggered by that cell phone call 10000 episodes ago (not that he even necessarily knows about it? idk)

Was that a seed? It wasn't gold was it?

i haven't watched that episode in forever so i actually have no idea! wonder what's going on with that thing anyway

tulpa is not "just a word tammy came up with" ?

I mean it's the closest word she could pluck from memory to explain the concept 5 seconds after hearing the story, not that she literally invented the word.

Like "Tammy calls them both tulpas" isn't evidence of much of anything. I def don't think it means cooper's doppelgänger was created from a gold ball and some hair.

(It's definitely legitimate to think of him as a kind of tulpa tho, if you think of him as having been brought into being by cooper's fear as many do)

naido = "i, dona" confirmation donna is coming back

I get what wins is saying, tulpas are a description of a certain type of spiritual projection described in strains of buddhism, but it's just mapping a word we know on to whatever these seed people are.
Doesn't mean you can read the wiki for "tulpa"and assume everything applies

Then again, maybe Lynch was like, fuck it, they're tulpas

naido = idano = I dunno

Tulpa seems like a mark frost addition to me. Like dugpa it's a term that originates in Tibetan Buddhism but was reconfigured or bastardised or whatever by western occultists, and that's where frost tends to pick these things up from. I suspect lynch would have been fine to leave it at "manufactured", which tells you everything you need to know in simple terms.

xp my joke post I was gonna write about naido/odian would have been like "ODIAN. OH DIANE. HE IS MISSING. YOU THINK ABOUT THAT TAMMY."

naido = idano = I dunno

Ida No is the other half of Glass Candy with Johnny Jewel who did much of the soundtrack though I'm sure it's coincidence.

Wikipedia and its sources believe "tulpa" to be a Tibetan Buddhist term, as is "dugpa" of course - the latter's rendition as "Brother of the Shadow" makes me wonder if it's the etymology behind "Dougie".

oh sorry for the repeat there

love how JJL and Roth are always eating snacks/junk food - seems like a necessary thing for contract killing

watching this at 7 AM - nothing compares to this show really

Time to start obnoxiously reposting the theories and observations which reveal our observational genius, I guess. From just after Richard's hit-and-run:

Lynch seemed to very deliberately have Richard Horne stop his truck just as the electrical transformer from the pole above was reflected in his windshield. Significant, I'm sure (particularly since this episode had very deliberate callbacks to the scenes in FWWM of the spirits traveling through the power lines), but I'm not sure how.

― The 5,000 Fingers of Dr. T & the Women (Old Lunch), Monday, June 12, 2017 8:40 AM (two months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'd like to go on reddit and ask em what they think all the equipment in the fbi hotel room does, i'd be eager to see just how ridiculous and far-out their theories get

P sure it's nothing more complicated than the fact that Albert and Gordon have a synthwave band on the side.

it makes sounds

xp

I'd agree that actually naming "tulpas" seems like a Frost thing. I think one of Lynch's trademarks is that he does not name things, or when he does name things, is incredibly generic at doing so. All of the otherworldly elements are shown, but not really talked about, in his stuff.

agreed, tulpa felt like a misstep - a simple Dougie style "that's weird" would do

do you guys think the humming noise at the great northern, then at the hospital, is more of a cue or is it actually indicative of a presence?

I was thinking that maybe it was the rest of Cooper's consciousness, and he's been floating between electrical systems to check on people in Twin Peaks before finally getting zapped back into a body

imo Tammy putting a name on it sounds exactly like her notes in the Secret History book -- it's all notes in the margins and footnotes postulating what all of these compiled documents might mean

i did enjoy how dougie's drastic change of character didn't evoke more than mild surprise in those around him. side effects, yes

xposts I guess to me it's similar to e.g. the presumption that the force at work in The Exorcist is a Judeo-Christian demon. It's the job of the FBI's Blue Rose Task Force to put this supernatural phenomena in a describable context even if the description is ultimately inadequate.

i did enjoy how dougie's drastic change of character didn't evoke more than mild surprise in those around him. side effects, yes

It sort of makes you feel like maybe manufactured people like Dougie and new-Diane are ALWAYS a little glitchy. Like, maybe Janey-E and Sonny Jim were used to Dougie suddenly changing personality for a few months if he walked too close to a power line.

Do we now think Janey-E is sister to actual Diane? Or does "sister", spoken by manufactured Diane, mean Janey-E is also manufactured? Or was that whole thing just fiction on new-Diane's part?

next episode is just the red room characters arduously reverse-pronouncing "tullllpa"

I am worried about where the real Diane is

in the sheriff's station

j/k

tbf it was lynch that introduced the term doppelgänger, which is a commoner term for sure but still a pretty specific pull from folklore

I don't mind the tulpa stuff (good thing too, cause although I knew the word before I feel like I've used it about a hundred times in the last week and not once previous to that), because I tend to find the tension between lynch mode & frost mode fruitful. The fact that this dialogue is coming from Chrysta Bell rather than an actor closer to the agent Preston from the book is pleasingly off

I do still wonder about the nature of Coop's children. Like, was Richard, as the offspring of a doppelganger, a legitimate human being? Is Sonny Jim? And if not, what does that portend?

why would diane have radically shifted how she appears if that's the case? I mean I get that that seems like the likely answer now, but it doesn't really make any sense that diane would turn into an eyeless asian woman.

It sort of makes you feel like maybe manufactured people like Dougie and new-Diane are ALWAYS a little glitchy. Like, maybe Janey-E and Sonny Jim were used to Dougie suddenly changing personality for a few months if he walked too close to a power line..

They certainly both had substance abuse problems, which suggests that the existence of a manufactured person isn't the best :-(

to those that say this is lynch's last work - wrong

The tulpas seem to have some bad personal habits--what's to stop Dougie part 2 from whorin' and gambling again? Coop seemed pretty blasé about this possibility. ha xp

I haven't seen it since I was a kid but the whole Coop appears and turns the Jones' lives around story reminds me of Quantum Leap.