Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

xp

Guys. Diane smokes American Spirits. Because she is in fact an American spirit.

Guys.

"remember ALL, meaning everything, including my crazy murderer smile : - ) and the fact you're not a real person"

I'm sure there are stupid-ass theories about why the hell the evil dopplegangers signal to the Diane doppleganger looked like a smiley, too

Dude, be sure to read the whole thread of that tweet I posted :-)

oh god

there's a 420 in the middle of the string of coordinates -> dopple jerry confirmed

Evan the fact that iirc Annie has not been mentioned once this series and Heather Graham was not asked to return says what it needs to about the notion that Cooper is a huge romantic. It was a wayward notion in the garbage part of season 2, similar to Cooper in flannel, that's now being ignored.

Cooper's tulpa was placed in Vegas because that's where Diane's sister lives. It's Mr. C keeping his various moving parts in some sort of order.

The way Diane talks about "his smile" makes me think that BOB was more in control for the first several years after the doppelgänger emerged. Mr C is evil but doesn't come across as particularly sadistic or lustful

imo he's just an evil fucker and the idea his decoy is married to diane's sister is just him being mean

he'd get that garmonbozia that's almost diane-flavored from janey when she lost her husband to the lodge switcheroo scheme

wins, did you miss the parts where he punched through a guy's face after wrecking his arm, kind of just nonchalantly watched his son get destroyed by electricity, and seems to be sexually involved with every female lackey?

Yeah I did

like, it's a lot more controlled than BOB's rape-and-murder, but it's Cooper's methodical and low-key nature grafted with BOB instead of Leland Palmer's dopey self

Evan the fact that iirc Annie has not been mentioned once this series and Heather Graham was not asked to return says what it needs to about the notion that Cooper is a huge romantic. It was a wayward notion in the garbage part of season 2, similar to Cooper in flannel, that's now being ignored.

Cooper's tulpa was placed in Vegas because that's where Diane's sister lives. It's Mr. C keeping his various moving parts in some sort of order.

― sciatica, Monday, August 28, 2017 12:38 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Annie was explicitly mentioned! The diary pages!

I think in all those examples it's emphasised how dispassionate mr c is tho, whereas BOB has the fury of his own momentum xp

i just rewatched audrey's "get me out of here" scene; i was kind of hoping all season that i'd get a moment that would give me a feeling similar to the one i get from mulholland drive's "camera dives into the darkness of the blue box" scene and boy i sure got it

That's fine Old Lunch, it's a point of fact that doesn't negate my point.

Anyway this will all be resolved next week when Cooper emphatically does not return to Vegas or bring the fam up to Philadelphia or TP or the Lodge or wherever.

It was a wayward notion in the garbage part of season 2, similar to Cooper in flannel, that's now being ignored.

There was precedent for Coop in flannel. From the very first episodes, he was enamored with Twin Peaks—the pie, the people, the trees—and open to the idea he could settle there. That passion for life/goodness is his core trait!

I don't think you can lump in Annie with all the garbage in the last 3/4 of Season 2. Cooper finding love in a town where'd he liked to settle down and start a new life is what makes the S2 finale & The Return so heartbreaking.

re: Annie, given that the whole show is about the ramifications of Cooper being trapped in the lodge, it's a little weird they never address how he ended up in the lodge. Yeah, nobody wants to hear about Windom Earle or w/e, but after FWWM the series got retconned so Cooper entered the lodge to... quietly console Laura Palmer or something?

well Lynch did put Annie in FWWM

actually i'd like to upgrade my opinion of the vedder song from "ok" to "actually i really like that song especially in context"

Yeah it's just more that it doesn't really matter at this point why he entered, the important thing is that he did - no real reason windom earle should be any less important than annie in terms of plot going forward

it's a little weird they never address how he ended up in the lodge

he went in to defeat Earle & save Annie. FWWM didn't retcon anything - time is completely disjointed in the lodge

xp yea i was surprised by the Vedder song, it was appropriately low key, wasn't the end of the episode, & fit the context & mood perfectly

no real reason windom earle should be any less important than annie in terms of plot going forward

Earle was more or less disposed with by BOB in the S2 finale (BOB being like 'he doesn't have the authority to take your soul" or w/e).

although we never got any followup on "Windom Earle Theme" playing over the credits in Part 7 with the weird superimposed reality in the Double R.

Like a lot of people have been going mental that annie hasn't been mentioned much because HOWS ANNIE was this incredible cliffhanger, which is dumb as shit - the cliffhanger wasn't the question of how annie was, that was actually answered a second later iirc ("she's fine, she's at the hospital" iirc), the cliffhanger was the situation illustrated by the mocking repetition of that question

kind of just nonchalantly watched his son get destroyed by electricity

i liked the little 'oh' from bad coop after richard was disintegrated, the first time we've seen him taken aback, but nevertheless only like 5% taken aback

i like the implication that annie was so pure of heart that she made it out of the lodge so unscathed that we never hear about it again

at least that's how i choose to interpret it, maybe something horrible happened to annie after the hospital scene

I'm just fixated on Cooper being cheated out of true love & happiness & contentment. so The Return is "Cooper's odyssey back to Twin Peaks" = to me that means returning to and reclaiming the love he found at the end of Season 2.

Annie was a plot device and post-series she got on with her life

i like the implication that annie was so pure of heart that she made it out of the lodge so unscathed that we never hear about it again

― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, August 28, 2017 2:00 PM (fifty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

at least that's how i choose to interpret it, maybe something horrible happened to annie after the hospital scene

― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, August 28, 2017 2:00 PM (thirty-three seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Cooper sacrificed his soul to BOB to save Annie. I assume that means she escaped relatively unscathed.

annie is an associate manager of logistics at home depot's santa fe office now, she's fine

(I like annie btw, glassy-eyed pixie dream girl that she is)

Annie's roles in the finale & FWWM are lynch making the best of a bad situation. Everyone above who's said variations on this otm.

I'm just fixated on Cooper being cheated out of true love & happiness & contentment

You're watching a different show than I am. What I love about Cooper is more in line with Elvis Telecom's post from way up thread--he's more of a cipher, even pre-Lodge something more than human, an interruption of the subconscious into conventional notions of methodical investigation. This facade cracks at key moments--"It had only happened once before"--but making him a conventional romantic lead weakens the character, as Frost and Lynch clearly realize from how they've revised the character this time around.

annie is an associate manager of logistics at home depot's santa fe office now, she's fine

― Karl Malone, Monday, August 28, 2017 11:03 AM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lmao

occasionally she has strange dreams though

Re Cooper "settling down" in TP-- the earliest instance of this desire is in the season 1 ep where he makes a note to Diane to look into TP real estate, which he expects to get at "a reasonable price." I always found something a little sinister in how MacLachlan deslivers that line--almost the reverse of the potential Ghostwood investors, like he's looking forward to capitalizing on the town's tragedy. Having that rough edge sanded off the character later on is one of the many small ways S2 went wrong.

but if he hated Annie he certainly didn't have to use her in FWWM - I mean the whole movie takes place before she shows up, you wouldn't expect her to be in it in the first place! Even if he wants that "message from the future" thing it could've been Chet Desmond or the Giant or Teresa Banks or whoever

.... eh? xp

weird characterizations of cooper itt

@sciatica - im a sucker for traumatized people finding happiness & love in a new life in a new place. Cooper being cheated out of that hit me hard. good point about Cooper being a sort of cipher for the entire series - but i still saw him as a real person and wanted him to be happy.

I feel like Janey-E and Sonny Jim are totally the family Cooper would have if he had a family. Definitely leaving open the possibility that the final scene is him turning up back at the red door.

In re the long-delayed Coop return, it's one of those things that will add to the Lynch legend. "The idiosyncratic filmmaker famously waited until the 16th hour of an 18-hour film to introduce the hero."

What I love about Cooper is more in line with Elvis Telecom's post from way up thread--he's more of a cipher, even pre-Lodge something more than human, an interruption of the subconscious into conventional notions of methodical investigation. This facade cracks at key moments--"It had only happened once before"--but making him a conventional romantic lead weakens the character, as Frost and Lynch clearly realize from how they've revised the character this time around.

Come on, though. He's the show's protagonist. You're not vested in his happiness and his well being, or curious about how he derives fulfillment? And when the inciting incident of the whole new series is this tremendous sacrifice that he's made, it makes sense to step back and remember why he made that sacrifice.

Lotta people in this thread seem oddly dismissive of one of the new series' biggest plot lines. Frost and Lynch could have dropped Cooper literally anywhere—on a mountain, in a prison, a different country, a gang, anything—but instead they placed him with a family we spent a ton of time with. That was for a reason.

obviously he won't be truly happy until he marries Albert

xp

Re Cooper "settling down" in TP-- the earliest instance of this desire is in the season 1 ep where he makes a note to Diane to look into TP real estate, which he expects to get at "a reasonable price." I always found something a little sinister in how MacLachlan deslivers that line--almost the reverse of the potential Ghostwood investors, like he's looking forward to capitalizing on the town's tragedy. Having that rough edge sanded off the character later on is one of the many small ways S2 went wrong.

― sciatica, Monday, August 28, 2017 2:19 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh whoa, I didn't get that sense at all. I thought that message to Diane about buying property in Twin Peaks was completely sincere. Cooper was traumatized by Caroline's death and was eager to start a new life. I took that all at face value.

Cooper references several things as "reasonably priced" in the original series iirc (the Great Northern, the pie at the RR?)

same xp

Definitely leaving open the possibility that the final scene is him turning up back at the red door.

Yeah it's unlikely we'll get an ending this clean/happy, but if the show ends and the whole arc of Cooper's 25-year-in-the-making return is that he cracked a case and gives Gordon a thumbs up, it's gonna feel empty as hell